The real BMWs

[MattC]

It's often said that many people drive a BMW because of brand image. With the new 1 series even BMW themselves have said it provides a chance for buyers to own a BM at a lower price. With all this niche widening which are the real BMWs, the stand out models of the past and present that were, are much better than the competition and make a BMW worth owning?

e46 M3



328



e12 M535i

[Truckosaurus]

Z1

[Woolley]

I drive a BMW. Couldn't care less about the badge or the image. It's rear-wheel drive and almost nothing else is, that's why I bought it.

[429CJ]

My three favourite Beemers:

M635CSi

The 02 series

The 1800 TI/SA

[Logrence]

BMWs are so ugly these days it can only be brand image that makes someone drive one.

[Woolley]

You can't see it from inside it. Who cares what it looks like? Mines a '96 316 which is far from the prettiest they ever built. Handles well, good acceleration (particularly for overtaking) for a 1600 and not to bad on the petrol. It tows the caravan well and is extremely reliable too, so I don't worry much about appearance.

[Logrence]

Fair enough then!

[evo]

I think BMW have lost thier way. Sure they are still great cars, but most are too soft and leaning towards the general public rather than the driving enthusiast. My favourite car of all time is the 2002 Turbo, and I love the e30 (I've owned three of them)

Nowadays they make nothing even like that. It's very sad.

[Truckosaurus]

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

[MattC]

The funny thing is that the e46 3 series was styled by Bangle, and it's a good looking car, IMO. The latest 5 series looks its best in dark colours.
The 7 series predecessor, 2500-3.3 saloons, was an impressive machine. The 1972 3.0 Si had 200 bhp, 4 wheel discs, electronic fuel injection and 140 mph top speed.

e3 BMW 2500- 3.0, 3.3Li

Out of the 02 range the 2002 turbo was the first turbo car in Europe, ever!

1973/74 2002 turbo with mirror script spoiler

0-60 under 7 seconds, top speed over 130 mph.

[topwelshman]

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??! They're world market share increased more than any other equivalent marque & is going to increase more with these new models.

I drive a 330cis & the reason I bought it was simply because nothing came close for what I wanted, power, handling, refinement, comfort, good looks, reliability & good Residual Values.

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull

BMW's sell themselves for the very reasons that I wanted one & poor opposition just strengthens their position

[garcon]

Dissection time...

Originally Posted by topwelshman

BMW has certainly not lost its way.

Agreed - at least Bangle's cars are distinctive, and they still do everything as well as BMW's ever did.

The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles...

Do you have figures for that? Is that global, Europe or UK? I thought the XJ was top selling large exec in the UK (rightly so too).

The 3 series outsells the mondeo...

And the new 3 series looks great. I still wouldn't buy one, but that's me... I have an anti-image thing, mainly cos of all the self centred shallow fashion victims that drive them in Cheshire...

Mercedes' quality is now VERY poor, they're over priced, boring & lardy to drive, an old man's car(unless we're talking AMG)

Now Mercedes have lost their way - in dealer service as much as quality... people still buy the badge, but when the dealer service at BMW and Lexus is infinitely better they'll defect in the end.

Saab are FWD, do not handle although they are well built but do not have the prestige or refinement.

I like the 9-5, but it really isn't even close to the 5 series in handling. And I fear for what GM are going to do to future Saabs - the 9-3 is ok, but the interior quality is noticeably poorer than the older 9-5.

Audi, I had an A4 quattro before, it's a good car but unrefined, not as well built as rumoured & the drive was very dull

Audi build quality is still the benchmark, but dealer service is nearly as bad as Merc, and Audis look poor value next to their VAG counterparts. Still fancy an RS6 though...

I'm a kind of anti-badge snob I suppose, so the very thing that attracts many buyers to Audi/BMW/Mercedes actually puts me off. My Subaru Legacy has all the quality, refinement and kit of any of them, with a throughly neutral image - suits me fine. Of the more established 'quality' brands, Jaguar are recovering well - the XJ is easily the best car in its class - and Lexus have the quality, reliability and service that Mercedes had twenty years ago.

[Gabrio]

As a racing driver and regardless of style and image, I have often have driven BMWs because they are fun to drive and excellent cars mechanically. I have had a Z3, two 5 series and two 3 series. I have to admit though that I greatly dislike the new 3 series (the back has no appeal to me) as I was fond of the previous model. I still cannot figure out if I like the Z4 or not, which means probably not...I'm not fond of the 5 series either (although it seems to me the most visually acceptable model in the range) and the 7 series trunk looks like it was just added on top of the rest of the car....The 1 series does not look striking to me either...So altough their products are technically unquestionable, I've stopped buying BMW and went for a Peugeot 407 : cheap enough, great looking car, competent chassis and does 80% of what a series 3 does. I'll go back to BMW when I have both the driving fun factor and joy to look at them. For the kind of money they're asking, that's the least I expect.

[Logrence]

I would counter the fact that Mercedes' quality is still poor - the new cars that they're bringing out at the moment...new M-class, for instance - address the criticisms and the problems of late. Still a long way to go, though.

The BMW 7-series bombed when it was first released - most of the sales come from China and the Far East where the love its odd looks...but the recent facelift comes just over a year after the car was launched...hardly a part of the usual model cycle.

Originally posted by Garcon

And the new 3 series looks great. I still wouldn't buy one, but that's me... I have an anti-image thing, mainly cos of all the self centred shallow fashion victims that drive them in Cheshire...

That why you got rid of the Scooby?

[Gnomex]

Favourite BMW's?

The 02 range - way ahead of its time in my opinion. When it came out it blew away the opposition. And when I first read of the 2002 Turbo I got myself a huge wall poster of the car for my bedroom wall. At the time I was a teenager and lived close to BMW GB on the A4 Great West Road in Brentford and saw my first ever Turbo there. I did hear a tale that the mirror "Turbo" writing was too aggresive and was subsequently banned. Anyone know more on this?

The 1800/2000 range before it - chiefly because my Dad let me drive his 2000 TiLux. It was a very rare beast - boasting two twin choke Webers (I think they were Webers). It did 0-50 in 7.3 seconds which was kind of amazing back then - you could blow almost anything away! In return for letting me drive it I got the job of cleaning all those lovely carbs and linkages...

The Batmobile.... An amazing looking car that, once all those add on bits had been homolgated, simply dominated touring car racing. A couple of years back there was a print hanging on the wall in my local BMW dealership and I knew I had to have a copy... Sure enough, the print was listed as on official BMW part and a copy now hangs proudly at home.

[evo]

Originally Posted by topwelshman

BMW has certainly not lost it's way. Alot of people have commented on the styling but look at the facts. The 7 series is the best selling car in its sector by miles & has already outsold its predecessor by nearly 2 to 1 in half its life cycle. The 3 series outsells the mondeo, the 5 series is regarded as the best allrounder money can buy. How have they lost their way??!

Well since I'm the one who used the words "lost thier way" I feel I should point out that I gave reasons why I thought they've lost it, and it had nothing to do with how many cars they sell, what they look like, or what kind of build quality they have.

[StuiE]

My fav: E30 M3, not too big, not too small, and the bulging guards...awesome




http://myhome.iolfree.ie/~templates/...e30_m3_evo.jpg

E36 M3 (the later versions of it) look hot too

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

I don't mind it, for a Bangle design it doesn't look that bad, it does look pretty clean.

[F1JordanUk]

I Marshalled a track day on Saturday, It was a Porsche day but a current M3 came along, by half way through the day the Engine was sounding rough as hell and it seemed to have a bit of trouble with the brakes too, And the body roll was scary!!
Now the Ariel Atom that was on track was awesome!

[MattC]

The BMW 2002 turbo front spoiler mirror script was removed when the 1974 cars came on stream. The car was launched when the fuel crisis came along, media and public sentiment was against what they felt was an inappropriate car for the time (fast & thirsty), and they didn't like the boy racer concept for the spoiler mirror script.
I too was surprised by the post saying the new 7 series had sold well. The 80s M3 was a standout car, probably still the best M3 of all time. It was a real racer, and had the looks too.
The BMW 503 of the 50s was styled by Goertz, the man who did the BMW 507 and Datsun 240Z. The 503 V8 was a much admired convertible and coupe in its day, but it's high price meant it wasn't a sales success, pity.

1950s BMW 503 V8

[d-b]

hi there

i would nominate the 635 & the CSL as the best,though my mum had a A reg 525ie (apparently rare as even the insurance companies hadn't heard of it)
it had a long stroke 2.7 engine & although it wasn't fast it would do 60 mpg (no lie) when my old (hated) 728i couldn't do more than 15mpg

not worried about modern BMW'S as i would never buy one anyway but each to his own

d-b

[Airhead]

Favourite BMW's now let's see...

The R90S - very collectable now
The R100RS - not yet collectable so I want one real bad. A good early model will be an investment for sure. Something I will do in this life.
The K1100RS - I had one for six years and rode the thing daily, a couple of months ago I saw my bike (with a group of other bikes) outside a cafe and nearly fell off the Daytona turning around and going back for a look. It was like meeting a ex-lover after four years separation, I knew every curve and every scratch, well the ones I put there at least.

And today the Daytona is in the shop getting a reburnt ECU - bugger you Triumph! And the shop dudes gave me a 12 year old K1100LT with the works to ride. And a gentlemanly conveyance it is.

[Bluebottle]

I know a chap who had an R80ST for years, ran it into the ground- several times!
Bomb proof engineering.

[MattC]

The 155 mph BMW turbo gullwing sportscar, powered by a 200 bhp version of the 2002 turbo motor.



on test track

interior

[FastJoel31]

I drive an E30 325 sedan, and love it to death. The M20 engine is bulletproof, the car handles beautifully - even in the snow.

I'll take any E30 or a 635CSi.

[mac]

Originally Posted by Guy Humpage

I must be the only person, other than Chris Bangle's mum, who thinks the current 5-Series looks really good.

Nope - I think it is stunning. The best looking in its class.