Barnfind Blitz

[smokystove]

I can't help noticing that there's an incredible amount of hype at the moment around the concept of the "barn find".

Of course most of us fantasize about bringing home an untouched gem and sympathetically restoring it back to use.

And I'm always glad to see this happen especially with particularly rare examples.

But it seems there is a frenzy at present and the term has come to include everything from cars literally being dragged out of lakes and forests, untouched for years usually with good reason (I remember this being called un-restorable just a few years ago)... to those that have been "found" by dealers in their own lockups where they have been languishing unsold for some time because previously no buyer was brave enough.

Can't help thinking that at the prices being commanded, there's going to be a lot of unfinished restorations in the near future that were overpriced in the first place and became far too daunting to complete.

The trend is also breeding some very liberal use of the term "matching #s".

In short... has everyone gone mad or is it just me!?

[mountainstar]

I think it's interesting to see some of these cars and hear about their stories.

One of the websites I visit every day is "Bring a Trailer". They do not always have barn finds, but will including interesting ones if they come along.

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I think it's interesting to see some of these cars and hear about their stories.

One of the websites I visit every day is "Bring a Trailer". They do not always have barn finds, but will including interesting ones if they come along.

Oh I definitely find them interesting and believe me if I had the means I would go for such a restoration myself. It's certainly nothing new.

But I'm talking about the hype around the idea at the moment.

I like BringATrailer, especially the editor's commentary. He has surprisingly good taste for a fellow American!

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by smokystove

Oh I definitely find them interesting and believe me if I had the means I would go for such a restoration myself. It's certainly nothing new.

But I'm talking about the hype around the idea at the moment.

I like BringATrailer, especially the editor's commentary. He has surprisingly good taste for a fellow American!

I couldn't agree more. I have noticed that prices for the top marques have started to slide ever upwards to the sort of "silly money" of the late 80s.
Some dealers have encouraged investors who are less well-informed that this is a gilt-edged opportunity during a world recession.

Thus the chance also now arises to peddle these "finds" as worth their weight in gold.However we must take into consideration that there are so many billionaires in the world today for whom this is chicken-feed cash - they like car-collecting as a hobby, and now their numbers have been swelled by the Russians and Chinese.

[dtype38]

Hadn't noticed that much barn find hype this side of the pond, but I have noticed a tendancy toward 'restoring' cars from less and less of the original. Seems to me that finding a Vehicle Identification Plate attached to a bit of rusty metal and using it as the basis for creating a beautiful historic classic car (out of all new materials) doesn't really count as 'restoration'!

[smokystove]

I am on this side of the pond (but other side of the channel) and it's the UK mags and here in Germany where I've been sensing the swell as well as in the US.

[dtype38]

Sorry smokey, glanced at the flag but didn't read the location. Humble apologies.

I agree that there seems to be a swell of "rediscovered" cars. Just hadn't caught on to the "barn" aspect. Possibly just read a different set of mags?

[smokystove]

No worries, I often get confused myself where I am and where I'm supposed to be!

To be fair, maybe I've noticed it because I've recently helped a friend advertise and sell an unrestored 50s sportscar, and as well have been searching for a cheap resto project for myself.

On both the buying and selling side I've heard quite a lot of either asking or boasting about examples being "unmolested originals for restoration" seemingly more than usual.

Recently had a look around a Bonhams sale of PreWar motorcycles, a large collection of unrestored original bikes sold for 2x or 3x the estimates almost without exception.

Big article in Octane this month about "preserve or restore"... and so on.

Not saying the sky is falling, but it does make me a bit nervous about the shape of (unaffordable) things to come!

[mountainstar]

Yep, get your 80's and 90's classics now while you can afford them.

I remember liking some of the late 60's early 70's Porsche 911's about 10 years ago. Then you could pick them up all over for $15K or even less. Now they have doubled in price or more.

BMW 2002's in really good condition have pushed up over $15K all the way up to $40K.

Even Porsche 914-4's are getting up there for good condition cars.

[dtype38]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Yep, get your 80's and 90's classics now while you can afford them.

Now there's an idea to conjuer with.... what would you buy the might become the E-type of the future, but at an affordable price today? How about a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth? Still a few about around under £5k.

Actually there's a race series in the UK called Future Classics for cars from the 70s and 80s, with the odd 90's car eligable. Here's a link to their gallery page (top left folder) to see what people have entered as a "future classic".

http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/gallery.php

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Now there's an idea to conjuer with.... what would you buy the might become the E-type of the future, but at an affordable price today? How about a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth? Still a few about around under £5k.

Actually there's a race series in the UK called Future Classics for cars from the 70s and 80s, with the odd 90's car eligable. Here's a link to their gallery page (top left folder) to see what people have entered as a "future classic".

http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/gallery.php

On the top end I think Ferrari Testarossa's and Lambo Countach's are going to go for top dollar in 20 years. Right now they can be picked up for a song compared to their original purchase value. Maintenance however, wow, I have seen some $20K Testarossa invoices for maintenance.

On the low end, nice, unmolested Chevy Camaros and Ford Mustang 5.0's from the 1980's and 1990's are going to do well.

I also think nice Acura NSX's, Toyota Supra's, 300ZX's and 3rd gen Mazda RX-7. Original, well taken care of cars in the USA have been climbing in value.

E36 M3's are a steal right now as well as Porsche 911 964 chassis cars. It's going to get tough to get E30 M3's that have been driven into the ground soon too.

Good Porsche 944's have been climbing in value too.

When it comes down to it, I believe the late 80's into late 90's era is going to generate a lot of cars of value in future years and the reason for it is because it's the pinnacle before everything became overwhelmed with stability control, ABS, traction control, etc.

The 1970's I don't believe will generate much of value as that was when government forced themselves on automotive manufacturing with regulation and union favoritism and the cars showed for it. After 1973 it was bleak.

[smokystove]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

the pinnacle before everything became overwhelmed with stability control, ABS, traction control, etc.

The 1970's I don't believe will generate much of value as that was when government forced themselves on automotive manufacturing with regulation and union favoritism and the cars showed for it. After 1973 it was bleak.

Think you're spot on about pre-ABS, etc. examples being likely to become very desirable in the near future...but there are plenty of 70s examples already commanding top money, just look at Porsche RS so I'm not so sure about that theory.

Government regs. and unions never stopped the Germans or the Japanese making quality desirable machinery one bit in fact I daresay quite the opposite.

Now, Detroit fatcats' complete ineptitude and lack of innovation in dealing with the fuel crisis and the impending (and imposing) new safety regulations at the time is another thing. Same as it ever was. But that's a another story for a different thread, lest we digress!

Veering back towards topic, I notice a few RX7s on the CSCC link... those are lovely things to drive, a bit Alfa Romeo-like, nice positive steering, balanced, revvy motor. Not what I would call beautiful, but the earliest ones in the right color can look very attractive in stock trim. Lot of fun for very little money, maybe not for long.

[Peter Mallett]

Speaking of barn finds. I found myself reading an older issue of Octane the other day. It was on the laundry basket in the bathroom. It was the issue where they covered two fairly contentious (IMO) cars. The first was the sale of the 1955 Austin Healey 100s. The second was the restoration/recreation of the Lindner Knocker E Type. Ok, both are significant cars and both deserve some kind of memorial. However what really ticked me off was the reporter's suggestion that the sale of the Healey, at a price which was far and above the wonga expended on previous Healey's, was all due to it being the first car to appear at Sebring and as such was the car that started the "s" suffix to the Healey cars. The writer then went on to suggest that any discussion about it's part in the (in)famous 1955 Le Mans disaster was insignificant and had absolutely no bearing on the price paid.

He could be right.....................................

[terence]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Hadn't noticed that much barn find hype this side of the pond, but I have noticed a tendancy toward 'restoring' cars from less and less of the original. Seems to me that finding a Vehicle Identification Plate attached to a bit of rusty metal and using it as the basis for creating a beautiful historic classic car (out of all new materials) doesn't really count as 'restoration'!

Been going on for many years,there is one GT40 racing today that was built from the chassis numbered section of the chassis-that was built over twenty years ago.