R&S MKIII question

[GT1]

How many MKIIIs did R&S pump out?

While were at it, how many MKIIICs did they do?

Thanks

[Tim Northcutt]

If you go to the Riley & Scott website:

www.rileyscott.com

I know that they have a complete chassis registry for the MkIIIA's and the MkIIIB's (the European cars) and even some notes on who had them, who they sold them to and engines, etc...

If this info is not as in-depth as you wanted, if you click on the "contact us" section, and e-mail them, I'm sure they would answer your queries....

I have found them to be quite open and very helpful in this regard....

[Tim Northcutt]

BTW.....

The MkIIIC's that I'm aware of were originally sold to:

Dyson
Robinson Racing
Matthews Racing

But there may have been more....if there were, I'm not aware of them...

But I'd be interested in knowing if there are others out there as well...even if they are still in the Riley shops in Indy....

The Dyson cars went to American Spirit for their campaing in the ALMS last year, and now are in the posession of AutoCon

The Matthews Racing cars were the ones that competed at Le Mans in 2002 and 2003 (with factory help from the Rileys), and were sold by Matthews to Intersport, who campaigned the MkIIIC from Road America onward, plus Sebring this year...

The Robinson Racing car was dramatically altered via the front end of the chassis, etc., and those changes were not homologated...Robinson raced it in Grand Am until the rules changed for the DPs in 2003....

They could not bring it over to ALMS, because the car would have had to be crash tested again since the front end of the car was altered so dramatically....the changes were not made by R&S...they were made by a designer that Robinson brought in to do it....thus they are not homologated per the ACO....

You cans see images of the R&S MkIIIC (including the Robinson changes)
on "Mulsanne Mike's" site....a superb technical site on numerous prototype chassis....

the site address is:

www.mulsannescorner.com

Look up the R&S MkIIIC in the chassis index and that will give you lots of tech info plus pictures...

Hope that helps...


And please close the loop on this by letting us know "how many" MkIIIC's are out there beyone the ones I listed above (if any) and where they might be located at this time...

Thanks!

[PiSigma]

Hi guys,

Here is a link directly to the Mk3 chassis listing I did on the R&S website:

http://www.rileyscott.com/Racing/MkV...sRegistry.html

I haven't updated it in a few years and some of the cars have changed hands. It has been hard to keep track of where some of them are.

That listing does not include the Mk3C. Those chassis were started with a new numbering sequence since they were quite different from the A and B (Series 2) models:

001 Robinson Racing
002 Dyson Racing
003 Crash Test Chassis
004 Jim Matthews Racing
005 Jim Matthews Racing

Robinson still have their car and as has been pointed out 002 was sold to American Spirit and then Autocon. Both JMR cars went to Intersport.

With the company name change to Riley Technologies we hope to have a new web site up soon. It is currently 'under construction' as they say.

[paul-collins]

Hey, PiSigma, glad to see you, and glad to hear you're still with Riley! Welcome to 10-10ths. Any news on Riley chassis (whatever the spec) coming soon?

[PiSigma]

Just very busy building DP's. I can't say who they are all for yet as the new owners prefer to do their own announcements when they are ready and we respect that.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by PiSigma
Hi guys,

Here is a link directly to the Mk3 chassis listing I did on the R&S website:

http://www.rileyscott.com/Racing/MkV...sRegistry.html

I haven't updated it in a few years and some of the cars have changed hands. It has been hard to keep track of where some of them are.

That listing does not include the Mk3C. Those chassis were started with a new numbering sequence since they were quite different from the A and B (Series 2) models:

001 Robinson Racing
002 Dyson Racing
003 Crash Test Chassis
004 Jim Matthews Racing
005 Jim Matthews Racing

Robinson still have their car and as has been pointed out 002 was sold to American Spirit and then Autocon. Both JMR cars went to Intersport.

With the company name change to Riley Technologies we hope to have a new web site up soon. It is currently 'under construction' as they say.

Welcome to the Forum, PiSigma, from an Indy resident who is a fan of the company's creations and has followed the Riley efforts for many years now......

If this will help you for your updated Chassis Registry for the MkIIIA's and B's:

I was searching through one of the "For Sale" sites a few months ago, and came across the following cars:

Chassis 008 and 015

apparently were sold at some point by Solution F to Conrero, and they were campaigned in the FIA-SCC Series during the 2001 season..

Two of the drivers were Alex Caffi and Beppe Gabbiani

Those cars were referred to as "Long Tails" in the ads listing them....but I don't believe that they were listed in the site when I looked recently....

So either someone bought them (good price...$120,000 for 008 as roller chassis, and $160,000 for the 015 with the Ford engine that Solution F put in it) or they took them off the market....

I believe Conrero may still race in other slower level series, and if I remember correctly , the e-mail address they had in the ad was

www.conrero.it

or something fairly close to that....

One quick question:

1. The ad said it was a "Long Tail" that was "homologated"...did R&S do the revision or approve the revisions as far as you are aware of?

Just wondering....


Hope this helps your records....

[GT1]

Hey thanks everyone!

[Graham Goodwin]

I don't know whether the R&S site still has the excellent retrospective on the MkIII by Russell Wittenberg (written originally for DSC) but if it does it's well worth a read for ANYONE who loves sportscars.

[tblincoe]

reading this thread makes me sad that intersport bought BOTH matthews R&S MkIIIC's and never raced either of them seriously...

[R59]

I'm sure that in years to come, there will be a race at Road America where all 34 of the 15 chassis ever built will be on the grid.

Just like a Supersports/Can-Am race a couple of years back when 25 of the 12 McLaren M8's were there, all claiming to be the genuine article.

Which is one of the reasons why I wasn't able to obtain a March 707 tub a couple of years back, even though I wanted it to build a spaceframe replica for road use. The owner of THE 717/707 put his foot down and said no!

Don't blame him really.

Rob.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by Graham Goodwin
I don't know whether the R&S site still has the excellent retrospective on the MkIII by Russell Wittenberg (written originally for DSC) but if it does it's well worth a read for ANYONE who loves sportscars.

It is still on the old site at the address I posted at the top of this thread...and it IS an excellent article, indeed!!!

A must read for the afficionado of this sport...

[PiSigma]

Thanks Tim. I had known about Conrero and they are not unfamiliar since they had chassis 003 years ago and they also had some association with R&M and chassis 020 (the nicest A/B/S2 version we built, Judd V10, Oh, Oh, Oh (best Tim Allen grunt)).

Someone from (I think) Conrero stopped in our shop during last years F1 weekend to let us know they were for sale.

I think the 'long tail' is the mod originally done by Raffanelli to chassis 012 and 014. We never did it or approved of it but if you look at a 3C tail it looks very much like this. I'm not sure who homologated it. R&M did the FIA approved front structure for the A/B cars. When Dyson dragged the Mk3's back out after the Reynard disaster and ran them in the ALMS they had to buy new splitters/front structures from R&M!

tblincoe, I'm glad someone else has that thought. It's hard for me to post comments about that situation since I work at Riley and was the DAG on those cars. I think we showed at Sebring in 2002 what they could do and that was on Goodyears. I just wish in 2003, when we got Michelins, that we still had Elan engines. Then add two more fast guys as good as Goossens and look out! I really think we could have given the Audis a run.

When the new web site is done it will contain the chassis list and Russell's excellent article.

I'm also working on an Access database in my spare time (ha ha) with the Mk3's competition history. When done it can be searched by chassis number, driver name, etc. You would be amazed at some of the drivers who have driven a Mk3 at some point in their career. I'm missing some data from 1999. Guess I'll have to find a copy of Time & Two Seats to fill in the missing history.

Some of these cars are starting to fall in the hands of vintage racers. I think Henry Camferdam has bought 007. A good friend of mine has bought 009 and just purchased 002 from Dyson. I had the chance to drive 009 two years ago and it was awesome. I had heard HSR was going to start a WSC series. That would be cool to get some of the Mk3s, 333SPs, Kudzus, etc. out together again.

[tblincoe]

i've always said that about the MkIIIC PiSigma, I really think that the car can be fast given a chance by a good team. during the 2002 season, even without Michelins, i remember the matthews car being fast at a variety of tracks

best of luck to you guys in GARRA, but I hope that someday the time is right for Riley to come back to international sportscar competition in either the ALMS, LMES, LeMans, or all three

[marcush.]

I remember Rafanelli campaigning a R&S in 1999 or 2000 after loosing
the works status from BMW.Car sported a Porsche 917CanAMstyle Nose treatment.

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by tblincoe
i've always said that about the MkIIIC PiSigma, I really think that the car can be fast given a chance by a good team. during the 2002 season, even without Michelins, i remember the matthews car being fast at a variety of tracks

best of luck to you guys in GARRA, but I hope that someday the time is right for Riley to come back to international sportscar competition in either the ALMS, LMES, LeMans, or all three

I'm hoping that AutoCon (now that they will have an Elan engine) can show that the car really has in the ALMS this year....

Or that Intersport will either campaign the two cars they have (which seems unlikely at this time) or sell the two cars they have to someone that will race them....

To PiSigma:

You mentioned Goossens plus two other "fast" drivers, and how that would have shown even more results....

I've always thought Goossens was among the very best....

IF there is a "Next Time" for a deal that involves the Riley factory to work a partnership with a privateer team to runan ACO specs car, I hope that Riley gets to select the drivers...and that the effort does not involve a gentleman racer who is there to get his own taste of speed...

Thanks for sharing so much info with us....

And I, too, really hope that at some point down the road, that we see a new Riley Technologies LMP1 built to 2004 specs.....it just doesn't seem the same without one of them in a race field...

[GT1]

I have often wondered what exactly happened after Le Mans 2003. During the booth, Dereck Bell, who seemed to know Matthews well, stated that he understood that Jim would try and run all the ALMS races after.

Then we get the news the team is through and both cars are for sale.

Considering that the engine was short of development and the team were no doubt still adapting to the Michelins, I thought the car perfromed well in the two outings it had.

[PiSigma]

Goossens is very good. What I meant was, for the longer races, that Marc plus two others like him, with Michelins, would have been a very competetive combination. No slam on Jim but he's not on the same level. If you want to beat Audi then you need a driver lineup at least as good as theirs.

[tblincoe]

thats great that Autocon has the Elan V8 now, but they're not entered for Mid-Ohio... what gives?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by tblincoe
thats great that Autocon has the Elan V8 now, but they're not entered for Mid-Ohio... what gives?

I'm sure thate is a good reason for it....and maybe we'll see them...who knows....

Doesn't Tom Drissi have a Trans-Am conflict that weekend???

I just hope that the ACO rejection after their strong efforts didn't make them take a second look and ask "Why Bother?"

But I really don't think that is the case....

Sometime today or tomorrow, we'll see the Lime Rock entry list...let's see if they are on it....that may tell us more...

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally posted by PiSigma
Goossens is very good. What I meant was, for the longer races, that Marc plus two others like him, with Michelins, would have been a very competetive combination. No slam on Jim but he's not on the same level. If you want to beat Audi then you need a driver lineup at least as good as theirs.

I was saying the same thing, PiSigma...

and I'm not really taking a shot at Jim Matthews either....but to compete at Sebring, Le Mans or Petit, having two fast pilots like a Goossens and (insert any two of these names here) -- Tinseau, Theys, Guy Smith, Magnussen, Robby Gordon -- (since all had driven in one of the races in 2002 or 2003 for Matthews) as drivers to join him would be a strong team from top to bottom...and they only had two of the three spots filled with top level pros to drive...