2017 World Rally Championship

[cg7aa]

I see a few renders have been released today of the various 2017 cars, I suppose the Toyota will look beautiful if it's fast.

[FIRE]

Toyota:
http://nl.motorsport.com/wrc/photos/...lery/?r=159212

Citroen:
http://nl.motorsport.com/wrc/photos/...lery/?r=158587

Hyundai:
http://nl.motorsport.com/wrc/photos/...lery/?r=159182



This shot reminds me of the Hyundai Accent WRC:
http://nl.motorsport.com/wrc/photo/m...d=10851254&i=5

[ArnageWRC]

I hope the Yaris goes better than it looks.....looks like a toy car.

[FIRE]

Looks better than the Hyundai.

The Yaris WRC is the new MG Metro 6R4.

[1975DCS]

I really don't like that only factory teams are allowed to drive cars build by the new 2017 rules. I believe all entries should be allowed to use the same rules and conditions. And what are they afraid off? Old cars beating new ones?

[crossfades]

Originally Posted by 1975DCS

I really don't like that only factory teams are allowed to drive cars build by the new 2017 rules. I believe all entries should be allowed to use the same rules and conditions. And what are they afraid off? Old cars beating new ones?

Not sure but I think it was because the newer cars are so fast so they decided that only professional drivers should compete with them.

However, the older cars will still be allowed to compete so I guess privateers can enter with those cars?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

I hope the Yaris goes better than it looks.....looks like a toy car.

Originally Posted by FIRE

Looks better than the Hyundai.

The Yaris WRC is the new MG Metro 6R4.

I prefer the Hyundai to the Toyota - the Yaris looks awful (far worse than a 6R4!)

[chunder]

Have to admit, you look at that Citroen and you think, is this WTCC all over again! All that budget going into two cars! I think them and Hyundai have come up with a similar concept, a longer than current, low, wide car. Whereas the Toyota looks just like a current car, small, boxy and short wheelbase. Looks like the Suzuki SX4 and that looked wrong from the start, too short and small.

Therefore I am thinking 2017 is a learning year for Toyota, the car looks wrong, and I think they will do the same as they did in F1, start with a base car, nothing flash, prove the mechanicals and the concept, then build a proper car and get in some decent drivers.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

Have to admit, you look at that Citroen and you think, is this WTCC all over again! All that budget going into two cars!

To some extent it is worrying - but then I suspect VW are spending just as much so there should at least be some competition.

Originally Posted by chunder

I think them and Hyundai have come up with a similar concept, a longer than current, low, wide car. Whereas the Toyota looks just like a current car, small, boxy and short wheelbase. Looks like the Suzuki SX4 and that looked wrong from the start, too short and small.

Therefore I am thinking 2017 is a learning year for Toyota, the car looks wrong, and I think they will do the same as they did in F1, start with a base car, nothing flash, prove the mechanicals and the concept, then build a proper car and get in some decent drivers.

The Toyota looks like it's from a different class doesn't it? Can Toyota afford a 'learning year'? I thought they'd been hacking the Yaris around this year so they could hit the ground running next year. Drivers look to be a problem though - the big names have all said no.

[chunder]

I would imagine Bert that you cant just come in and hit it straightaway withotu spending gazillions as VW did.

They were certainly testing a lot, and most teams when they come in take some time, Hyundry certainly did.

I thnk only really Citroen and VW in the past ahve come in and dominated off the bet, and that is highly likely to do with budget, testing mileage and money.

[S griffin]

Well hopefully the competition will be even better next year, hope the Toyota's hard work pays off

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

I would imagine Bert that you cant just come in and hit it straightaway withotu spending gazillions as VW did.

True - I can't imagine Toyota are spending peanuts though - of the works teams I'd guess Hyundai has the smallest budget.

Originally Posted by chunder

I thnk only really Citroen and VW in the past ahve come in and dominated off the bet, and that is highly likely to do with budget, testing mileage and money.

Citroen had a toe in the water with the Xsara kit car before they went for the full blown WR car and VW of course ran Fabias for a year so neither was coming in cold. I think Toyota may struggle initially.

[ArnageWRC]

An don't forget that Toyota back basically wasted about 18 months when they originally started testing the Yaris. TMG had Lindholm & Sarrazin doing all the testing, on gravel and Tarmac...

Then for some unknown reason Akio Toyoda moved the programme from Cologne, and gave it to Tommi - whose team had never run a serious programme before. Which I still find bizarre....and with the result that it turned into a mainly Finnish team....as they struggled to get people to come and work in Finland. So they are playing 'catch up'.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by chunder

Have to admit, you look at that Citroen and you think, is this WTCC all over again! All that budget going into two cars! I think them and Hyundai have come up with a similar concept, a longer than current, low, wide car. Whereas the Toyota looks just like a current car, small, boxy and short wheelbase. Looks like the Suzuki SX4 and that looked wrong from the start, too short and small.

Therefore I am thinking 2017 is a learning year for Toyota, the car looks wrong, and I think they will do the same as they did in F1, start with a base car, nothing flash, prove the mechanicals and the concept, then build a proper car and get in some decent drivers.

Interesting thoughts chunder, I tend to agree. I joked a while back that the cars are getting smaller and smaller and that it would get to a point in time where we would struggle to distinguish the real ones from their radio-controlled racing versions. The Toyota is already there in that respect.

Maybe they will come out and surprise everyone with their pace especially on tarmac. Let's wait and see.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by ArnageWRC

An don't forget that Toyota back basically wasted about 18 months when they originally started testing the Yaris. TMG had Lindholm & Sarrazin doing all the testing, on gravel and Tarmac...

Then for some unknown reason Akio Toyoda moved the programme from Cologne, and gave it to Tommi - whose team had never run a serious programme before. Which I still find bizarre....and with the result that it turned into a mainly Finnish team....

Maybe he felt Cologne handling the WEC car development and racing activities and a full-on WRC program would be a bit much given that the former is quite an intensive program.

[BertMk2]

The Citroen lineup has been confirmed:

Meeke
Lefebvre
Breen

Looks like a pretty good lineup to me although maybe lacking a bit of experience (other than Meeke).

[BertMk2]

And now Hyundai have confirmed Neuville for next season - lineups taking shape.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

And now Hyundai have confirmed Neuville for next season - lineups taking shape.

I heard in the highlights program that Sordo had 2yrs confirmed as well unless I was imagining.

I didn't know Camilli has only being rallying for 4 years! 4 years! Remarkable. Talk about a vertical learning curve.

[tbtstt]

Well I hope that the Yaris goes well, because it looks like a brick! The way the Toyota program has been run thus far doesn't fill me with confidence, but fingers crossed they have the pace.

2017 Fiesta WRC in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngH2...ature=youtu.be

I was expecting to like the look of the Fiesta more, but I'm not convinced yet, it looks "stretched" to make the extended track width rather than chunky like the current car. I'm sure there are refinements to come in the styling though, plus it is hard to gauge the lines with all the camouflage.

[1975DCS]

It's interesting to hear the 2017 revs so much higher than the older 2.0 34 mm cars. I know this is due to a shorter stroke, but I guess the 36 mm restrictor frees the top end.

[leonidas]

I am much more impressed by the WRC's "return to power" than I expected to be. The cars do look much better and the new body kits mean each has its own character.

I am wondering a bit about safety with people saying these could be so much faster than current models (and obviously very much faster than group B). Yes, I know the body kits are meant to give more impact protection but most serious injuries and fatalities tend to be caused by frontal impacts and objects entering the cabin through the front of the car - these areas don't seem to have improved that much. And then there are the spectators/photographers who still stand in stupid places and will have even less time to react to errant cars...

[chunder]

Do they really sound that much different?

it isn't really that different to the current cars, juts a bit more raucous, and I mean a bit more.

With a load more aero and body contouring.

Now, they look kind of like time attack cars!!

[cg7aa]

Very interesting thoughts throughout this thread, good discussions! I too was excited about the power increase but I'm questioning that now, as someone said earlier, who asked for more power? Thinking about it, it's an answer to a question nobody I know of has asked!

Arguably, the power of the cars is the least of the WRC's problems; the core one it seems to me being the disappearance of the sport from the minds of the general public. Those of us in the know will probably enjoy the faster cars but will it bring new converts? Are they preaching to the choir?

[Alex Langheck]

You've hit the nail on the head.

The current cars are the fastest through a stage we've seen; faster than the brutally fast in a straight line, but agricultural Gp B cars. So, the cars aren't really the problem.

It down to promotion, and the series of bland, identikit WRC events, and muddled thinking from those at the top and the Manufacturers.

As you say, they're only preaching to the converted; your modern day 'general motorsport fan' isn't really interested in the sport anymore - you only have to look on various motorsport websites/ forums, and the rallying/ WRC threads fare poorly compared to F1, BTCC, MotoGP, WEC, etc

[S griffin]

I'm old enough to remember when they showed the Silverstone Rallysprint stage of the 97 RAC on the Beeb, but it seems that a great sport has been forgotten about. It's a shame because proper promotion should get more people interested