|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
16 Feb 2013, 15:06 (Ref:3205877) | #1 | |
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 495
|
GTE vs GT3
I have noticed that there are a lot of threads with posts regarding GTE vs GT3, and thought that I may as well make a thread for the matter.
It is becoming more apparent that GT3 cars are in many cases as fast or indeed faster than their more expensive GTE cousins. GT3 cars are getting more aero parts and are becoming wider and wider, so does this mean that GT3 will eventually evolve into GTE, with the latter class dying out? It will be interesting to see whether the GTC (GT3 cars) in the ELMS are able to keep up with the GTE cars. |
|
__________________
"How would you like a newspaper upside your head?" @MattMK45 |
16 Feb 2013, 16:45 (Ref:3205902) | #2 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 278
|
IIRC one of the criterias for GT3 cars to enter in the Le Mans series was a performance restriction to keep them separated from GTE on track.
|
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 16:54 (Ref:3205906) | #3 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,270
|
That was last year I believe, this year... a Gallardo in GT3/GTC with Peter Kox driving? You'd need about a ton of lead to stop him being faster than the GTE cars.
|
||
__________________
When in doubt? C4. |
16 Feb 2013, 17:52 (Ref:3205926) | #4 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
|
Well the BMW Z4 that is going to be running in the GTE class of the American Le Mans Series this year isnt a GTE at all. Af far as i have heard from various sources its actually a GT3 car with various bits added and various bits taken away.
It seems possible that the ACO will be moving towards this kind of thing for its GT class in the future, a sort of modified GT3 car/Gt3 based car, so manufacturers dont need to build an entirely new car. But also far enough away from GT3 so that it dosent seem like the ACO has simply stolen SRO's GT3 category. |
|
|
16 Feb 2013, 17:57 (Ref:3205927) | #5 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
16 Feb 2013, 18:37 (Ref:3205934) | #6 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
|
Quote:
Its only allowed into the ALMS by waivers on engine, chassis all sorts and this is why the ACO currently havent homologated the car and it wont be at Le Mans. If you believe the guys at Radio Le Mans and dailysportscar.com that is. I remember them saying something specific about the wheelbase for GTE has to be the production length, whereas this Z4 racing in the ALMS has the GT3 wheelbase. Its dos'nt conform to GTE regs was their general point, its only racing through waivers and performance balancing. It may be that this is the way GTE is going however, ill give you that. |
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 19:44 (Ref:3205951) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 664
|
Z4 GTE is ACO homologated. It isn't doing Le Mans this year because it's a new car and they still need to do testing and development.
|
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 20:22 (Ref:3205961) | #8 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 276
|
The previous BMW M3 GT2 had just as many waivers and it actually ran at the 24 Hours of Le Mans (ACO, 2010/11) and the Intercontinental Le Mans Cup (ACO, 2010/11). The lack of participation in 2012 and now, 2013 is due to their commitments to DTM.
BMW Motorsport Official Statement: Quote:
There goes your argument. |
|||
|
16 Feb 2013, 20:25 (Ref:3205962) | #9 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 364
|
Power creep is definitely an issue that needs addressing, and hopefully that will happen soon. It would be pretty awesome to see the same car run at Dubai, Bathurst, Le Mans, N'ring, and Spa and maybe eventually Daytona and Sebring.
|
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 22:30 (Ref:3205994) | #10 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 664
|
GTE cars can already compete at all those tracks/endurance races, except Bathurst. Daytona in 2013.
|
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 22:35 (Ref:3205996) | #11 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
|
Quote:
And i also have no doubt that we will be likely be seeing the Z4 at Le Mans next year. At least i hope it will. Though i didn't think it has been homologated by the ACO just yet. Maybe i am wrong but my main point was the car is not originally designed and built to be a GTE car as all the other cars mentioned have been. BMW have just changed their GT3 to be more like a GTE car. It marks a significant step away from the GTE regs and maybe its the future. But you may as well just throw out the rulebook if people aren't going to abide by it. And i think this is probably what will happen, that the ACO GT class will become something similar to GT3, you make your car and it will be performance balanced. The purist in me would like to see cars built to the same rules racing and the car with the best engineering solution to the rules would win. The realist and the fan sees that not all cars were made equal, money is obviously and issue and everyone likes close racing. |
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3206002) | #12 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 276
|
Some ALMS team did a Lamborghini conversion before. It was a complete failure. Probably because it was a straight conversion job. The Z4 GTE, is not.
The Z4 GT3 definitely had a role in the GTE's development. But in the same way that the 458 GT2/GT3 or 2012 RSR/2013 R are related. I would not consider a completely new aero package among other things, BMW "just changing" things. The Z4 GT3 was used as the base, but the Z4 GTE is a completely different beast. It's like saying that the 2007 Courage LC75 is the same thing as the 2013 HPD ARX-03c. We humans may have been "descended" from apes and whatnot, but look at where we are now? I see no "impurity" in the Z4. And they are built to the same rules. It's called GTE. |
||
|
16 Feb 2013, 23:23 (Ref:3206014) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,264
|
Have a read of John Dagys' article on the Z4 GTE, it's stsrting point may have been the GT3 version but it has been totally modified in all areas bar the engine and transmission to become a GTE car.
|
||
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House |
17 Feb 2013, 00:54 (Ref:3206040) | #14 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 314
|
I guess maybe im wrong then.
I was basing my argument on Jon Hindaugh from Radio Le Mans and Graham Goodwin from daily sportscar.com discussing the Z4 on midweek motorsport. They seemed to be adamant that it was flaunting the GTE rules. But yeah im happy to accept that its enough of a GTE to be running in the ALMS. Admittedly i have changed my tune a little, but i dont know all the facts |
|
|
17 Feb 2013, 01:04 (Ref:3206041) | #15 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,264
|
The only rules flaunting it's doing is using the V8 and a transaxle gearbox. The M3 used a transaxle so that's not the biggest issue people have with it, it's the use of a V8 which no production Z4 road car has.
|
||
__________________
MBL - SpeedyMouse Race House |
17 Feb 2013, 01:41 (Ref:3206050) | #16 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
17 Feb 2013, 13:13 (Ref:3206201) | #17 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,566
|
|||
|
17 Feb 2013, 13:41 (Ref:3206206) | #18 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 278
|
The Z4 GT3 took its drivelineline from the M3 GT2. The GT3 rules stipulates that the engine has to come from the mfg's production line.
The GTE rules stipulate(d) that the engine block had to come from the roadcar. That rule is now blurred, to allow BMW to use their V8. |
||
|
17 Feb 2013, 14:41 (Ref:3206215) | #19 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 276
|
Quote:
Your point? PS, its a waiver |
|||
|
17 Feb 2013, 14:42 (Ref:3206216) | #20 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
|
|||
|
17 Feb 2013, 21:54 (Ref:3206370) | #21 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,203
|
I must say there is a difference between waiving a (pointless!) rule to homologate a road car and keep it close to its original form, compared to waiving rules to homologate a road car allowing illegal performance enhansing change of wheelbase, track, drivetrain layout, engine swap. That always qualified as a prototype (not silhouette).
For the record, I don't hate the BMW brand or the Z4 in particular. I rather like the look and sound of the Z4 GT3 car, I also wouldn't ever call the road version a hairdresser's machine, although this beauty could have a more defined personality/purpose. But what it does to GTE is unparalleled. Last edited by Pandamasque; 17 Feb 2013 at 22:00. |
||
|
18 Feb 2013, 05:41 (Ref:3206549) | #22 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 364
|
|||
|
18 Feb 2013, 05:43 (Ref:3206551) | #23 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,270
|
GTE cars run only at the Spa 6 Hours, not the 24 Hours. As for the N24, it depends on engine size and number of waivers whether a GTE car would run in SP7, SP8 or one of the E1-XP invitational classes.
|
||
__________________
When in doubt? C4. |
18 Feb 2013, 16:37 (Ref:3206776) | #24 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 41
|
The Evora GTE?
I don't know the technical details of the Lotus but it wouldn't surprise me if the only car that follows all the regulations to the letter turns out to be the most uncompetitive in recent years. Regarding GT3, I think the only thing that doesn't work in it's favour is it's name and it'll always be the lesser class compared to GT2/E. Perhaps the time has come to follow the structure GT Open has adopted and rename it GTS. |
||
|
18 Feb 2013, 16:45 (Ref:3206780) | #25 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,711
|
|||
__________________
It's great to be here! |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
GTE Speculation | Dented Table | Sportscar & GT Racing | 694 | 14 May 2013 16:55 |
GT3 vs GTE Cost | Racenut | Sportscar & GT Racing | 15 | 1 Feb 2012 17:03 |
BMW Z4 GT3 vs BMW M3 GTE | Matt | Sportscar & GT Racing | 4 | 20 Dec 2011 19:24 |
GTE speed limiter | gucom | Sportscar & GT Racing | 19 | 11 Aug 2010 02:41 |
Gt3 Rs & Gt3 R | Omega-Red | Sportscar & GT Racing | 18 | 27 Nov 2003 18:55 |