Rally X Car Concepts?

Cryos · 17 Oct 2003, 21:26 (Ref:754764)

Rallycross produces some of the most powerfull and Beatifull looking prodution cars in the world, it comes to my attention that the good old days where RS2000's and 6r4's and cars to the same extent have seemed to gone a miss...

Now in the 21st Century What Rally X concepts could their be?

What cars 1600 and under? VW Golf? too slow, VW Polo ??

I think that Diesel powered cars are the way forward in general automotive, but what about in Rally X ?

A few years ago (Year 2000?) i recolect that a Golf GTDI Was in motorsport competition in rallying, it done quiet good for itself.. So has the circuit version of it, its wone its class a couple of times...

Why do you guys think that Diesels havent flown into the rally x scence yet??

Its a fact that diesels are cheeper and in most cases faster cars to run, build and maintain... You can get more HP with little effort aswelll....

Stevie A · 17 Oct 2003, 22:24 (Ref:754796)

I think the reason why we don't get the one-off group B type cars now is because the regulations want cars to be based on mid-sized popular hatches/saloons. And lets face it, cars these days all look the same and look pretty dull. They're all like vans or mini MPVs eg focus/fiesta/corsa/polo/golf........etc. They're designed for space and practicality....not as a racing machine.

In my opinion, the concepts i would look at are things like ford puma/vauxhall tigra/audi TT/honda integra. Cars with a low wide stance, something with a bit of poise and balance. The problem is that these would have to be developed from scratch where as if you go for WRC type machine you can use ready developed and proven technology.

How i would love to see a Clio V6 supercar. 3.0 V6, mid-engined, normally aspirated (ie no turbo restrictor required) and 4WD.......everything the FIA doesn't want.........but spectators would love!!!

As far as diesel goes, it still cant compete with petrol powered engines. The diesels produce plenty of tourque but can't rev to anywhere near the levels of a petrol race engine, hence less bhp. At the end of the day....a 2.0 TDi road car produces max 170 bhp compared with 270-280 bhp from a 2.0 turbo petrol.

Diesel could be an option but it all depends on the regulations. If it's a level playing field, petrol will win hands down.

Barrie · 18 Oct 2003, 08:16 (Ref:754952)

Reintroduction of GT cars into rallycross I personally think would be the way too go. It worked in the 80's know reason why it couldn't work now. A Porsche or Lotus supercar would be cheaper to build than a Focus or 206, and proved in the past you can make them competitive as well. These stupid restictors would have too go as well though. 1000bhp that's what rallycross should be like again.

chauffeur · 18 Oct 2003, 16:47 (Ref:755212)

Just read the autumn edition of rallycross mag.Apair of Clio's due out next year.One in modified the other supercar.

Stevie A · 19 Oct 2003, 13:25 (Ref:755892)

Are the clios standard or are they the mid-engined 3.0 V6 Renault Sport models because a few guys in France race WRC type clios in supercar.....ie front engined 2.0 turbos??

Also do you have any ideas who will be driving them??

chauffeur · 19 Oct 2003, 14:44 (Ref:756031)

The modified will run a turbocharged nissan FWD.The supercar will be a mid-engined clio trophy.The cars will be driven by Terry&Nic briggs.

RALLYXPICS · 19 Oct 2003, 15:34 (Ref:756082)

david binks new mini will be at blyton, some test day pics on the site now

winnie · 19 Oct 2003, 20:26 (Ref:756289)

If Briggs is building the Clio's don't expect to see them untill 2005.

The front wheel drive must be the engine from his Audi TT. A 400bhp front wheel drive car - that should be good!

Maybee he has turned the seat round 90 degrees on his TT and put Renault panels on. Have to have a look which end the wheels steer.

**BertMk2** · 21 Oct 2003, 07:47 (Ref:757919)

Terry Briggs has sold the TT (there's a thread on here somewhere about that) so I guess it'll be a new engine from somewhere else in the Clio. Still, it'll be good to get another different car type out there (especially in supercars - there's too many Fords). You've just got to hope that they go a bit better than the TT ever did.

Cryos · 22 Oct 2003, 19:52 (Ref:759930)

Just asking an opinion here, would any of you guys like to see say a :

1.6 TDI Polo Rallycross car or even a 1.9GTDI VW golf rallycross car? If not why ?

chunder · 22 Oct 2003, 21:02 (Ref:759983)

Rxie, I think that it is a bit early on in the development process to see diesels in rallycross. Not many drivers in the sport could afford to develop the cars into anything like the type of car that could beat other cars.
I do think that SEAT are on about briging a diesel into ETC next year which could prove interesing and of course BMW and VW have been using oil burners in endurance racing for years, I seem to remember a track test of a 318 that was a full spec BTC car with a diesel motor in it that the BMW factory used to win the Nurburgring 24h.
It is possible but the tech stuff will have to be bought in I reckon. Could well be a massive advantage to be had though for the one that makes that brave decision

Cryos · 22 Oct 2003, 21:32 (Ref:760008)

We worked it out and it would work out much cheeper than building a petrol equivelent model...

Polo TDI (1589cc)
240 BHP (Changing the turbo to the GTDI Turbo and changing the oil cooler)
5 Speed Multitronic Gearbox (standard with ratio tweeking)
Brake discs all round (using Polo GTi Rear Axel)
engine Manigment system from Golf GTDI
All in all we estimated it to be 13,586 Euros Cheeper than an petrol model, it will also be more reliable then a petrol model..

Stevie A · 23 Oct 2003, 09:33 (Ref:760425)

The problem is that because it is turbocharged you need to apply the 1.7 induction factor and this would mean it would run in the 2500cc-3000cc weight category. (1589x1.7 = 2701cc) I'm not 100% sure what weight that would be but think it must be around 900-1000kg.

If you look at say Des Wheatley, he's running 230bhp from a normally aspirated 1.8 and his Metro weighs in at about 620kg. And of course Evans has 280bhp and about 750kg ish. I know the TDi would produce more torque and lower down power but do you still think it could compete??

When you are running so much heavier you've surely gotta be looking at 400bhp+ to even out the power/weight ratio and even then the lighter cars are gonna handle better, especially on the loose. Also, 400bhp from a turbo petrol is easy and relatively cheap.

**BertMk2** · 23 Oct 2003, 10:06 (Ref:760463)

Isn't there normally some sort of conversion factor applied to diesels when working out which class they run in? I think there are some diesels that run in one of the alfa based series - they're able to compete because of this equalising factor so if that was applied it might be feasible to run a TD in rallycross. One for checking against the regs I think!

Cryos · 23 Oct 2003, 17:00 (Ref:760987)

I know in ireland if you wanted to race a turbo diesel rally/rallycross car it just gose on the engine size....

Stevie A · 24 Oct 2003, 19:48 (Ref:762201)

I think that the 1.7 forced induction factor is an MSA thing that is implemented across all forms of motorsport in the UK, not just rallycross.

I'm not sure of any special regs for diesels but maybe there is because as BertMk2 said, i also heard that there is one very competitive Alfa 156 Sportwagon GTD that races (and wins!!) in the Alfa saloon car championship.

But as i said earlier in the thread, if it's like for like, i don't think the diesels could compete.