Mclaren: Dead, or Resting

Keeps01 · 2 Jun 2002, 08:57 (Ref:302699)

I am fairly new to the whole Formula scene, however, in the year and a half I have been watching I have noticed that the Mclaren's form is not as good as its reputation. I know that Mika won the world championship in 1998 and 1999 after a long droubt of Mclarens bad form, but since the later half of 2000 the Macs have been back on that same droubt.

The question I have is, do you think that the Mclaren team should do some big changes (firing engineers, and so fourth) because for the last few years the Car has not been one in which the drivers could make a real contribution.

p.s I know D.C won last weekend, but if Yoonge was in front, I bet he coulda held Michael back.

DNQ · 2 Jun 2002, 09:01 (Ref:302700)

True about that last statement...

Big changes? Nah, It'll be right. They are just in a lull. Just like they were in 1992-97. They'll be back.

Keeps01 · 2 Jun 2002, 09:03 (Ref:302701)

They will come back for 2 years, then have ANOTHER 7 year failure? I dont think so DNQ... Something bout that deal is not very appealing

DNQ · 2 Jun 2002, 09:05 (Ref:302702)

Formula One works in cycles. At the moment, they are in a slow period. Maybe it will be 7 years. Maybe 20 like it was Ferrari. Maybe just two-three like Williams in 1998-2000.

Basically, the car is good. The car is REALLY good. Only the engine is a bit of a dud.

Jack racer · 2 Jun 2002, 09:05 (Ref:302703)

They have one of the best handling cars there is just a matter of HP, thats why they done well last week it's not a hp track

Gt_R · 2 Jun 2002, 10:52 (Ref:302715)

Kids are told not to curse...because what you curse others would befall on you... Ron didn't listen and sourly said he wants to see Ferrari in another 21 year drought... perhaps that explains??

But no. Mclaren and Ilmor had lost the plot a little. I think it is unfair to lay the blame fairly on Ilmor's feets. Sure, Monaco is a testament that Ilmor is really lagging in the horsepower race... but for a company that made the most powerful engines in 98 and 99, you question how bad can they make an engine? No doubt though, they really need to up their game if they want to challenge BMW. They seem to have fall of the boat that they once captain, and now not only is BMW take the captain seat... Ferrari is climbing aboard...even Toyota and Renault.

On the chassis side, there is fundamentally nothing major with the car. It handles rather well, aerodynamically sound. Newey had done a tidy job. However...you could sense the whole design team had been a little off form and stale. Newey's heart doesnt seem to be fully focused...and in recent years, hardly do you see any design/technical breakthroughs... the nose to tail is filled with design influenced from other teams...

Mika (ron's good friend) retirement, the Jaguar/Newey episode, Ilmor's founder's accident, and off focus with new facilities/equipments are some of the things that bugged Mclaren.

That said, while continuity is a good thing in F1, it does need to spice up the whole technical team a little. There were talks of Mike Coulgan being in talk for a seat in Mclaren as technical director... and some restructuring of the team's technical side.... Mclaren has the depths to bounce back to the top... the ball's in Ron's court.

**Spudgun** · 2 Jun 2002, 10:52 (Ref:302716)

Yeah, the chassis is very good.. All Mercedes need to do is sort out their engine and McLaren will be straight back up there..

Mantis13 · 2 Jun 2002, 14:09 (Ref:302790)

They will be back. Say what you want about Ron Dennis but he does know how to run a successful Formula One team.

f1manoz · 2 Jun 2002, 14:11 (Ref:302792)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the McLaren chassis. If you bolted a BMW engine to it, Ferrari would then have competition!

The Mercedes powerplant this year is, to put it bluntly, pathetic in power terms. No guts at all so that is why they are languishing.

At places like Canada and Hockenheim, expect Ferrari and Williams to clear off and the McLarens to be fighting with the Renaults and Saubers more often.

Mr V · 2 Jun 2002, 14:23 (Ref:302800)

Definatly resting imo, GT_R pointed out the death of one of Ilmors founders (paul morgan) as a contributing point and i have to agree that this may have caused then to "lose their way" a little! what ron ought to do imo, is, during this "lull period" look to the future, not the present and that includes the drivers! as brilliant as DC's victory was last weekend, it's not WDC material! get Heidfeld in the team alongside Kimi! what Ron should be worried about when it comes to the future though is, afterthe Newey/Jaguar saga and Newey pledged his future to McLaren there was talk of him designing "other things" (powerboats?). ron needs to be looking to strengthen his design squad if this is to happen!

Raven · 2 Jun 2002, 14:41 (Ref:302810)

I think, or hope, that McLaren are doing a bit of a Renault 2001 this year with their engine, going for the wider degree angle and need some time for development. Mercedes have said they will be taking some of the workload off Ilmor, so I hope its just a case of 1 step back for 2002, 3 steps forward for 2003.

paulzinho · 2 Jun 2002, 15:00 (Ref:302823)

I hope they can sort it out soon, with a better engine and the Renaults incredible rate of progression we could be in for a treat!

Especially now that the Michelins are finding their form!

Gt_R · 2 Jun 2002, 16:31 (Ref:302858)

The Ilmor engine this year had a wider angle than that last year. It brings this year's engine to 90 deg which is what is used by BMW and Ferrari. One has to wonder if Ilmor has underestimated the task, or plainly unable to keep up with developement. That said, Mercedes had assigned some of their engineers to have a hands on approach to the engine side.

This year's chassis is not bad at all. In fact, i would put it somewhere between the Ferraris and that of the Williams. But Newey and his men seem to run out of new ideas...like Rinland and his hull, Rory with the droop nose/curve triple-plate wing, high end exhaust and ductless brakes, etc... Innovations that i expect from a talented Newey that would bring great benefits.

That said, Newey is a great guy to have...and Ron really knows the business. There is no doubt Mclaren would be back, and shall not be overlooked.

EERO · 2 Jun 2002, 16:53 (Ref:302862)

Don't disconunt the disruptions caused by Jaguar and rahal nearly poaching Newey and the death of Paul Morgan in an air crash a year ago.

"Resting", hardly, you can bet that they're frantic trying to find the pace again. Unfortunately, for the past 15 years, the cycles in F1 determine one team to be dominant, and right now, no matter how good either Williams of Mac become, Ferrari's form is a difficult obstacle to surmount.

koby · 4 Jun 2002, 14:12 (Ref:304459)

how do guys know all the stuff about the Mclaren chassis being good or not good relative to other teams - is it just stuff from websites or mags or real inside information?

Jukebox · 5 Jun 2002, 05:13 (Ref:304995)

Quote:

Originally posted by Raven
I think, or hope, that McLaren are doing a bit of a Renault 2001 this year with their engine, going for the wider degree angle and need some time for development.

Are you sure they are not using the 90degree V spread engine this year?

Hugh Jarce · 5 Jun 2002, 09:00 (Ref:305082)

Or maybe Renault are just getting better, faster than the Mc's!

Jukebox · 5 Jun 2002, 09:16 (Ref:305086)

Nah....Renault, Sauber and McLaren are in the same league, one step behind Williams and two steps behind Ferrari.

They just couldn't find the right setup and package since last year and their development are equivalent and just seized from there on.

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