Toronto

[indycool]

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/179394

[Fogelhund]

Seasoned observers, though, estimated the race day crowd at less than 65,000.

Attendance at the Toronto race reached its zenith in 2001 when 73,629.

I'd like to point out that there really isn't much of a difference between 65k and 73k in terms of race day attendance. I guess the question really is, how much less than 65k?

I wonder, if perhaps it might be time to consider moving the race to Mosport? There wouldn't be any of the setup costs, or costs associated with shutting down streets........ Certainly, the event could be more profitable at Mosport, without a title sponsorship deal. It could still technically be the Toronto Grand Prix...

You would have the race at what I believe to be a more suitable location. Frankly, the Toronto track is a horrible spectator venue.

Thoughts?

[paul-collins]

ALMS race day attendance has been in the 40k range for the last few years; with Champcar's local promotions (which have historically been much more effective) I'd bet that most of the CC attendance would move down the highway. It might not be the same people, but I'd bet the number would not drop precipitously.

... certainly I'd go as a spectator, and I'm not doing that for the Exhibition Place race.

[Snrub]

...And who is the current promoter of the Toronto race?

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Snrub

...And who is the current promoter of the Toronto race?

Really, not a point of relevancy to me. A promoter would like to make money off an event. If the potential lack of a title sponsor makes an event unprofitable, wouldn't it make sense to look at solutions, that might be profitable to that promoter?

[Snrub]

I was more trying to point out that the series doesn't seem to do a good job when promoting its own races. Maybe they need to hire some people who specialize in it and who are good at it.

As a related point of interest, the CASCAR series has been renamed the Canadian Tire Nascar series. I suspect there's one potential title sponsor gone, but then again CASCAR has run at TO as a support series for a number of years.

[indycool]

I suppose they could go talk to Labatt's, but Molson got pouring rights in their sale of the race, so that wouldn't work.

It's rather difficult to tell who's doing what in the promoter area at some places. The former Denver staff is doing Vegas and Phoenix for DDB Ventures or CC or somebody. I say CC because Rena Shanaman is out there and she's always been CC...but she's also working with Penske in Detroit for the IRL now. The promotion LLC at San Jose changed from the first year to the second year and Singleton went back to Toronto, so hard to tell who's in charge (and who's backing) that one. New GM at Toronto FOR GF and KK. Seems to be same staff at Long Beach. I really wonder "how much" Mi-Jack is the promoter at Houston and Cleveland.

[Leighton Irwin]

Mosport as a venue would be great. I attended every USAC race there. Worked (gophered) for Ken Brenn Engineering, Bob Harkey driver, at the 1st one. CRDA director at last one.
However, would moving the race to Mosport lose most of the TO party aspect? Mosport isn't in the boonies but it is 60 miles from TO and big hotels. I know there are plenty of hotel rooms within 25 min. of the track, just not big hotels. For example, I usually stay in Lindsay only 25 min. away if I keep the speed down.

[racerkeke]

I think one of the reasons CC likes downtown circuits is because of the close accommodation (altho it may take a person the same 25 minutes to get from their hotel to Exhibition Place as it does to get from Lindsay to Mosport). I always wondered if one of the reasons they dropped Michigan Speedway (or didn't try too hard to get it back) was because it was an hour away from everything.

keke

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

However, would moving the race to Mosport lose most of the TO party aspect? Mosport isn't in the boonies but it is 60 miles from TO and big hotels. I know there are plenty of hotel rooms within 25 min. of the track, just not big hotels. For example, I usually stay in Lindsay only 25 min. away if I keep the speed down.

Getting into the downtown for any sort of post-track partying might be an issue, but this past weekend the traffic was all heading the other way, so I doubt it's a huge deal. Also, it was my impression that most of the week's festivities that were not at the track were prior to Friday?

Anyway, that was all bankrolled by Molson's (greasing the clubs for the events), so without a beer sponsor, I see a lot of this slowly evaporating...

Leighton, there's been a lot of new hotels going up in Ajax/Whitby/Oshawa, so they could easily be 15 minutes from the track. There's also the south end of Peterborough, which has a few new hotels. These are conference hotels, like Hilton Garden Suites and the like, so the quality is there.

An interesting conundrum - if Mosport were the venue of choice, they've got a relationship with Steelback Breweries, which was just bought out by Labatt. Perhaps if the race moves, Labatt comes back to racing for promotion.

[Purist]

The main thing I'm worried about with a race at Mosport is what circuit modifications CART would demand.

[Leighton Irwin]

Paul: I agree there are lots of hotel rooms. It is just they are not a couple of miles away. Same for pubs. However Elkhart is not exactly in a huge urban area and it works. I would love to see the CC at Mosport and I don't think there would be too many mods needed with all the improvements made in the last few years post HH and BK.

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Purist

The main thing I'm worried about with a race at Mosport is what circuit modifications CART would demand.

It would mostly relate to catch fencing, and that work is already underway. They added some last year at turn 2 and turn 9.

Leighton, you're right, there's not any significant hotel/pub availability within 10 minutes of the track, and now that the track is identified as squarely in the Oak Ridges Moraine, it's unlikely there ever will be. However, when the 407 finally pulls through (linking to the 115/35 interchange), ease of access will change for the better. That's a long time off, though.

[Fogelhund]

On the other hand... Mosport has a great deal more camping availability than Exhibition Place...........

[Leighton Irwin]

Paul: When Mosport was built the proposed multi lane highway was already roughly mapped out 45+ years ago. It was not numbered just proposed. Originally it was to go within a couple of 100 yards of the track. Build time was to be within 10 years. That is one of the reasons Mosport was located where it is. Enviromental concerns were not even thought of! I don't think the Oak Ridges Morraine was even named then.
The only areas of concern I can foresee would be the tunnels at 1 and 9. 9 is relatively slow and 1 is no worse than many other tracks. 4 might be a problem but I doubt it. I think Jack Boxstrom was the last one in the creek with Paul Cooke preceding him by a few years. and the whole area changed since then.
However, I doubt we will see it leave TO, although with Mayor Miller who knows.

[fazzaz]

Paul,

Isn't the Dynasty reasonably close to the track? Can you stlll stay there? (Have you???)

dgs

[paul-collins]

Fazzaz, I do believe the old Dynasty is gone. No doubt to many racers' chagrin... Although it seems the more determined souls were happy to trek into downtown for their evening entertainment this past year.

Just down the street from the site of the Dynasty, though, are some new hotels - specifically Best Western (who call their bar the Dynasty!), Quality Suites, Travelodge, Marriott Residence Inn, Hotel 6, Holiday Inn Express... Whitby / Oshawa has seen a lot of new hotels go up the last few years. Conference trade is booming here.

[fazzaz]

Just as long as Fazio's wine cellar doesn't change....