End of the Viper

[JAG]

Whats the betting a viper will not compete again at LM (current version anyway).

With the Prodrive cars, Vettes, S7Rs (with restrctions dropped for next year), Masarati, 575M, Merc SLR, Zonda and the rest the Viper seems to have finally had its day.

[gttouring]

yuor rigth the cyrrent Viper has been out clssed- of course the new one is going to make it ugly, after all what reliabilty- the other guys were alway in question

[FIRE]

Indeed, Viper time is over.

[ViperACR]

What do you mean the Viper is done. The LeSarbe Viper competed very well as it was only 10 laps back of the Corvettes and 20 laps back of the Ferrari. These are cars that have the full factory support behind them. The LeSarbre team had to withdraw from FIA GT, which it had won the past 2 years due to lack of funds. Here is a tem with no money that gave the guys with the big bucks a real run. If they would ever take the restrictors off the Viper then watch out

[JAG]

But the Vipers been outclassed in FIA GT in last 2 seasons, but won on consitency against newer, less reliable cars.

With the new Masarati, SLR, Lambo, S7R (post restrictions), Lola etc. the time for the Viper is coming to an end.

[SALEEN S7R]

I thought the Saleen S7R's had the restrictors it had last year removed (a 10% air restrictor and 15kg of ballast). Because they had met the homlogation requirements.

[JAG]

Originally posted by SALEEN S7R
I thought the Saleen S7R's had the restrictors it had last year removed (a 10% air restrictor and 15kg of ballast). Because they had met the homlogation requirements.

Not yet anyway.

Should be by end of year (PLM).

The cars as quick as the Prodrive 550 unrestricted.

[SALEEN S7R]

Not with the current teams running them Im afraid I dont think they are as fast. No disrespect to GNM or Konrad but they have nowhere near the require driver line up that is needed to challenge the factory cars. Okay yeah sure Gunon in FIA GT could do it over 1 or 2 stints but Konrad and Seiler woudnt be good enough, and Gunon wasnt even racing for Konrad at Le Mans! He was in a courage. The Konrad, Seiler, Brun line-up was very poor I thought. Okay the GNM car of Erdos, Newton and Chaves was slightly better but none of them are real stars, but Erdos is very good. I just now hope a top line team will run the Saleen's, with a top driving line up. Ie the factory Saleen Speedlab team, or a RML entry, with a top class line up.

[Chevyguy]

The S7R is also hurting for development purposes. While probably the best design for a race car, they don't have the budget to match any works teams. Also, I'm not sure that Mr. Saleen has the engineering expertise to match Chevy-P&M, and Prodrive. With the restrictions lifted, however, I beleive we could see more S7R wins, but not at Le Mans.

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by ViperACR
If they would ever take the restrictors off the Viper then

...it wouldn't be fair.

[pitviper]

out of curiosity, what restrictors are we talking about?

and as far as the competition goes, the vette won the same way last year: not on pace, but waiting until the horse broke. the Viper has had the near perfect balance of pace/reliability for 6 years now, and finally the rest of the world is starting to pass them. but i still feel that if dodge put exactly half of the budget into the Viper (yes, the current one) programme that GM or Prodrive did into their respective programmes, the Viper would still be winning. at any rate, i was glad to see the vettes lose. great job prodrive, and great job to all who finished. the Viper will be back soon enough, and will retake it's proper place i believe...we'll just have to see what the beancounters say

pit

[JAG]

Originally posted by pitviper
out of curiosity, what restrictors are we talking about?

and as far as the competition goes, the vette won the same way last year: not on pace, but waiting until the horse broke. the Viper has had the near perfect balance of pace/reliability for 6 years now, and finally the rest of the world is starting to pass them. but i still feel that if dodge put exactly half of the budget into the Viper (yes, the current one) programme that GM or Prodrive did into their respective programmes, the Viper would still be winning. at any rate, i was glad to see the vettes lose. great job prodrive, and great job to all who finished. the Viper will be back soon enough, and will retake it's proper place i believe...we'll just have to see what the beancounters say

pit

Trying to explain that each class has engine restrictors so that each class car produces roughly the same power, hence the Vipers 8l V10 is not as big an advantage as if the engines were unrestriced.

However if engines were unrestricted the big capacity atmos would eventually be forced out by ever more powerful turbos as in Group C and to a lesser degree IMSA GTP

[pitviper]

very true...i think the current formula works fine, though i do wish that the GTS cars would be allowed to run at 900 kg.

pit

[JAG]

Originally posted by pitviper
very true...i think the current formula works fine, though i do wish that the GTS cars would be allowed to run at 900 kg.

pit

I would like to see GTS cars run at 950/1000KG (900KG prob bit of a streach for most road cars).

We would then have cars like the original road going GT1 cars such as the F1 GTR, F40, Esprit V8 GT1 but with tighter homologation to stop the escalation in costs/new cars thaty happened in GT1.

[pitviper]

exactly. i think that the GTS class is headed for a very strong age in racing, one that if done right, could sustain itself for quite a long time...

pit

[ViperACR]

The Prodrive Ferrari may not be sponsored by the Factory but they have full factory support. The Corvettes are sponsored by the factory and have full factory support. The Viper has no factory support in any way.

[JAG]

Originally posted by ViperACR
The Prodrive Ferrari may not be sponsored by the Factory but they have full factory support. The Corvettes are sponsored by the factory and have full factory support. The Viper has no factory support in any way.

Prodrive support, not Ferrari support.

Vipers a great car thats had its time.

[ViperACR]

jag I do not see that the Vipers would be afraid of the other cars like the Saleens. What car ended up ahead of the saleens. The Zonda car is also not something that will be much of a factor. They are also not very reliable. Maserati has not raced for a long time. No one knows what to expect and I do not believe that Ferrari who owns Maserati will allow a Maserati to beat a Ferrari. That will never happen.

[ViperACR]

If I was able to choose I would take a bigger engine for endurance racing over a smaller engine. An engine that is a higher revving ha a lot of wear and strain put on it. That is why the Vipers are not done as you say JAG. The Predrive ferrari had one car out of 3 that did not brake down. Do it again and i will take a Viper or Chevy nine times out of ten in an endurance race.

[Lee Janotta]

The S7R _did_ show up the Corvette in it's first year of competition. That was before the restrictors. If Steve gets some more cars on the road, it'll be competitive again, and Franz Konrad will be beating good drivers off with a stick.

[ViperACR]

I like the Saleens over the Ferraris and the Chevys. I also believe that they would do well against the Ferraris. I like the engine configuration of the 427. That size of engine has always done well. It is a high revving engine. In drag racing it easily gets to 10,000RPM. I believe that the Saleens have not gotten treated fairly yet. But we will see soon enough

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally posted by ViperACR
I like the Saleens over the Ferraris and the Chevys.

i never quite got over the fact that the Saleens ruined British GT last year, it'l take something spectacular to erase that memory, i love the Prodrive Ferrari 550s, they look so good, especially as it echos the shadow of the 250 GTO but still looks modern at the same time.

[SALEEN S7R]

It wasnt the GNM Saleens fault if they were far above the level of competition in the British GT. They ran with the same restrictors as everyone else, and even when they still continued to trounce the likes of the Lister and TVR with bigger restrictors (allowing less power for the Saleen) they still trounced everyone. U cant blame the GNM boys for doing their best to win, if anything it was the compeitions fault for not doing a better job to beat them, after all the Listers in FIA GT can beat the GNM Saleens. If Laurence Pearce invested more money in the Lister in British GT maybe they would have been able to beat the GNM Saleen's.

[Garp]

Viper at LeMans is over, in the current state of developement, it's built for the FIA-GT. In the FIA-GT it can win some more races but the weight distribution can never be as well made as in the ferrari or Lister. The engine is to heavy with the gearbox at the wrong side!

Maybe a Viper built specially for ACO regulations will make a LeMans winner. Still it's not worth the money, Put your developement money in a bigblock rear engined car, like the Lambo. This will pay of better than a new factory Viper.

[SALEEN S7R]

I agree that front engined cars are becoming less and less frequent in terms of being produced, but then the Ferrari 550's and Ferrari 575's and Corvette C5R's and Lister Storms are all front engined and are currently dominating the GTS/GT class.

Having said that, from 2004 and beyond I see the future being mid engined cars only..