[Tech Issue] Teams closing in on 1500cc turbo engines for 2013?

[duke_toaster]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83106

Thoughts? I would have thought that 1500cc is a little small, and 680 hp about 70 short of current levels, but perhaps they're going to make that up with KERS ...

[Marbot]

1500cc was Ok back in the eighties.

How many turbo's I wonder? Single, multiple, variable vain or both?

GDI and turbo's aren't exactly 'new' technology either, but then, neither was KERS.

[Sodemo]

I would personally want about 1000BHP but we will see I guess.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I would personally want about 1000BHP but we will see I guess.

Never going to happen.

I was quite surprised that the proposed engines weren't going to be 1 litre and with much less horse power with the rest to be made up by KERS.

[Sodemo]

How many horses do LeMans prototypes produce?

[Mike E]

LM prototypes are limited to about 600-625bhp aren't they? Easy power, really.

[duke_toaster]

It depends on the air restrictors as LMS and ALMS use different ones, I heard about 650hp, perhaps that's for the LMS ones as opposed to the ALMS ones.

[TRuss]

The turbo 1.5s from the eighties had no problem making 1000+ hp. So 700 in a few years time form now should be no problem. I'm just curious as how they plan to keep power at 700hp. If I recall the the BMW 4 cylinder of the early 80s was tapping out the dyno at 1300 hp. That was the early the 80's and with a production based block. If these engines and aren't severely restricted we could see some major power being produced. No way anything that cool will happen though.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by TRuss

The turbo 1.5s from the eighties had no problem making 1000+ hp. So 700 in a few years time form now should be no problem. I'm just curious as how they plan to keep power at 700hp. If I recall the the BMW 4 cylinder of the early 80s was tapping out the dyno at 1300 hp. That was the early the 80's and with a production based block. If these engines and aren't severely restricted we could see some major power being produced. No way anything that cool will happen though.

No doubt one thing they'll do is require them to last half a dozen GPs, 1300hp would have been qualifying boost and from what I can remember they didn't last half a dozen laps!

[duke_toaster]

In this day and age with road relevancy and actually keeping the sport affordable we won't see hand grenades, and quite rightly so. I would imagine that they will be rev and pressure limited. 1600cc would have made far more sense with the global race engine, possibly even making it viable to do for 2012, but I guess it's only 100cc. I also think we'll probably see DI on these ones, maybe even VVT. They'll presumably be of a more modern specification.

[TRuss]

I agree with all said. The engines will have to last as many or maybe even more races than currently. They will have heavy boost restrictions and probably rev restricions. And maybe even a maximum fuel allowance.

[duke_toaster]

Just a thought - will there be a changeover year like there was when the V10s went? Perhaps if they do allow the two side by side the turbos could come in early for 2012?

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Just a thought - will there be a changeover year like there was when the V10s went? Perhaps if they do allow the two side by side the turbos could come in early for 2012?

There wasn't really a changeover year back then, just one team being allowed to keep the V10s because they couldn't afford anything else.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

1500cc was Ok back in the eighties.

How many turbo's I wonder? Single, multiple, variable vain or both?

GDI and turbo's aren't exactly 'new' technology either, but then, neither was KERS.

It can be great if made right, maybe free development within certain rules ? We all heard that before, but the prospect is exciting.

[neiltb]

limiting power on a turbo is easy, a spot in the manifold where a FIA issued pressure relief halve is fitted. If you can get max boost earlier then you get some extra boost low down but power out is basically capacity and amount of air in.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by neiltb

limiting power on a turbo is easy, a spot in the manifold where a FIA issued pressure relief halve is fitted.

'Pop-off valves' I believe they were called in CART.

[fourWheelDrift]

Originally Posted by Marbot

'Pop-off valves' I believe they were called in CART.

The beauty of the turbo approach and a boost limit is that every time the engineers improve the engine they just lower the boost limit, no hard decisions about how to limit engine power until the boost reaches zero whilst still producing 700 bhp from the 1500 engine, I suspect that is and will remain impossible but even if it's not it should give us a few decades

[NaBUru38]

It's much easier to control power by shrinking fuel tanks to 120 or 80 litres.

[duke_toaster]

Not really, the first few laps and qualifying will probably result in dangerous amounts of power, and the second half of the race would be a fuel economy run - sort of what happened to Group C.

[TRuss]

All turbo charged engines have pop off valves/waste gates...The key there will be FIA handout pop off valves mounted and collected before and after each session. Then they can even indidualize boost pressures according to each event. I think CART did the same thing. I bet we won't be seeing very much boost at Monza. Whatever. No matter what they do the engineers always get it back. F1 cars are fast. They have always looked fast since I started watching in '94 to present. Through all of the changes they have always looked fast. But nobody should expect any kind of free development in any area. Those days are long gone.

[duke_toaster]

There wouldn't really be much need to for specific boost levels for different events, mainly as F1 only runs road courses. Of course, they could change the valves at rather short notice if they need to keep power down for safety.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Not really, the first few laps and qualifying will probably result in dangerous amounts of power, and the second half of the race would be a fuel economy run - sort of what happened to Group C.

And therefore energy-flow limits are the way to go.

[duke_toaster]

Or, in the case of 1500cc turbos, just having rev and pressure limits.

[Pingguest]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Or, in the case of 1500cc turbos, just having rev and pressure limits.

If Formula 1 wants to become more fuel-efficient, pressure limits are not the answer. Engines should get an increasingly high air-fuel ratio.

[bravo]

Think we'll see a stack of Fiat engines gathered off road cars stacked around the back of Maranello as a outside urinal?


Oh I thought this was the 1980s again