jaguar

bonner · 16 Sep 2003, 01:01 (Ref:720206)

does any1 know if jaguar are going to build on there success next year or is this as far as they will go with limited funds or is ford going to make them stronger financially or not id love to see mark w build on what they have done from the irvine days

Mark Webber · 16 Sep 2003, 06:57 (Ref:720321)

Jag will challange Renualt next year .Mark has done a great job in the R4 and he have no input into it so with his input in to the R5 this car will go . Ford have a vested interest in Jag F1 as sales are all to important and Jaguar are winning in the showrooms due to F1 .
so Yes I see bigger things for Jag next year . Now all they need is a good stable teammate for Mark as if they had one this year they would have beating BAR TOYOTA already but Mark has had to carry this weight only and qutie well at that

2005 will have a top 5 not a top 3 Renault and Jag have the goods

DriverT · 16 Sep 2003, 08:01 (Ref:720373)

That's what they need for next year. I would love to see them capitalise on what they have. I think they should keep Justin Wilson in the second seat, as their seemed policy of chopping and changing drivers every couple of months isn't exactly paying dividends; they need continuity.

Thus Jaguar needs to ensure a larger supply of cash from its benefactor Ford.

bumpsteer · 16 Sep 2003, 08:10 (Ref:720379)

Jag should replace Wilson with the best possible driver they can afford. Until they do that they cannot be taken seriously. Same goes for Toyota. With the budget they have why do they mess around with the second rate drivers they have?

**Adam43** · 16 Sep 2003, 08:31 (Ref:720405)

Without taking my usual stance I shall try to answer this objectively.

I'm afraid Mark, I disagree, Jaguar could be the fifth best team, I don't see it being a top five.

I think it'll be close for fifth next, much like this year. However as time goes on I expect Toyota to overtake Jaguar. Maybe by next year, maybe 2005.

It will be close between BAR and Jagaur. My guess for 2004 at the moment will be that Jaguar will just come out on top. Perhaps by one better result.

There are several problems still with Jaguar. These are ones that other teams share two, but can they have two good drivers? Can they make two cars too? I am not convinced about there technial depth either. The management is still new and hardly strong.

Above all I am not convinced that at various levels in Jaguar, Jaguar Racing and Ford that they actually care. I remember reading a quote from a top brass at Jaguar that all they wanted from a marketing point of view was the odd heroic result. Not podiums, not wins, not championships.

One thing I am sure about though, is that Jaguar will not win Le Mans next year despite the massive amount of money they will spend on motorsport.

Well I nearly did it, right until that last paragraph!

BootsOntheSide · 16 Sep 2003, 08:43 (Ref:720418)

I'm sorry you regard Wilson, Panis and da Matta (and Webebr?) as second-rate drivers, but I think you're alone in your view.

Jaguar's backing from Ford doesn't allow for top drivers to be signed anyway - they might even want a paydriver for the second car, which backs up my view that they only intend to run one competitive car and one to make up the numebrs. They have already ended the careers of Herbert and De La Rosa, and jeopardised that of Wilson - this is esopecualyl abd as 2 of those are British.

Besides, do you think the top drivers who currently have well-paid racve-winning seats will join teams which ahve enough trouble getting cars to the end of the race, let alone running 2 cars competitively?

To answert the overall question, Jaguar have showed a lot of promise this season. The car is not as good as Mark's results suggest, but he's done enough to really worry the top teams, especially in qwualifying. The reliability hasn't been imrpessive at times, especially on the second car, adn teh man-management of constant firing is completely wrong.

Above all, Ford need to really put some money in now, but, as they are struggling financially themselves, they may come to view F1 as an unneccessary expense which isn't worth its weight for marketing, epsecially as they're behind four other big companies at the moment.

**GTRMagic** · 16 Sep 2003, 08:50 (Ref:720427)

Um, will there be an R5 for next year, or will there be an R4B?

bumpsteer · 16 Sep 2003, 08:59 (Ref:720432)

Quote:

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Jaguar's backing from Ford doesn't allow for top drivers to be signed anyway.

Any team that has aspirations to win consistantly have pour the resources in which includes two race winning drivers. If Jag/Ford are not prepared to do this they cannot be taken seriously.

Boots, do you really think that Panis or Da Matta are Championship winning drivers?

Mark Webber · 16 Sep 2003, 13:10 (Ref:720695)

but thats just it Jag has a inner working team the car is a great platform the R5/R4b what ever is coming off good foundations and the team is a good team without a question.
As for drivers well they have Mark down and that is a god sent in its self the just have to lock another one down and if you where a JV /DC/NH and you where coming out of contract and you are looking for option's I know where I would go

Sauber = good team but no factory support no future
Minardi = no money
BAR = strong team huge reliability still plage Honda

the rest have no seats

remember yes Jag had reliability problems ealier on but one man has equaled two men in BAR and Toyota
Jag (new )management have done nothing wrong but they have had to clean up others before them and Driver 2 is the main issue . How in hell can you develop a car for your No2 driver when he doesn't know the bloody car or the TRACK for that reason . They NEED an seasoned driver like eg:Nick and the team will stay fast very fast on the up ward climb.
Team current management don't mis Manage the drivers they just have to Fix proir management problem's in a very public work place like the drivers market

**Bononi** · 16 Sep 2003, 13:20 (Ref:720704)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
I think it'll be close for fifth next, much like this year. However as time goes on I expect Toyota to overtake Jaguar. Maybe by next year, maybe 2005.

Exactly.

Jaguar, lacks many things, despite having a superb driver in Webber. Professional quality and money, if you believe me.

jetsetter · 16 Sep 2003, 23:36 (Ref:721304)

I wouldn't be dismissing Jaguar just yet for 2004 with Webber having a whole winter to develop the new car although i believe for them to go forward they've got to employ another driver that is capable of scoring points, it's easier to move up the constructor's championship when you have two car's scoring in races.

**GTRMagic** · 17 Sep 2003, 00:17 (Ref:721321)

If Jos Verstappen brings the multi-million dollar backing from Trust for the 2nd seat at Jagwah, maybe the competition for Mark will improve.. I always get the feeling Jag is a team run to a budget not to an engineering standard...

If you look at McLaren & Williams, they build shythot cars, develop them all year at enormous cost, but have the sponsor dollars in place to do that.... you always get the impression that someone at Jag is on a promise if they dont spend all their budget

Super Tourer · 17 Sep 2003, 11:40 (Ref:721691)

I think Adam is no the right lines. Where is the desire and will to win at Jaguar/Ford that Mercedes and BMW display.

I don't see the commitment to F1 from Ford that's required at this level.

In their core business Ford are struggling and racking up huge losses, BMW and Mercedes are highly profitable - they can afford F1 at this level, Ford arguably can't.

Ford need to cut costs in their core business to stem losses, it's very hard to negotiate cost cutting with your workers, when they see millions of dollars being spent on F1 every other weekend on their TV screens.

As for the drivers, unless Mark Webbber has improved substantially as a driver over the last year or so, Wilson should at least be his equal and beat him in similar cars in F3000.

You have to question why Jaguar cannot seem to prepare two cars to the same level of performance/reliablity week in week out.

I see Jaguar as a team continually under review, no doubt Mercedes and BMW will be upping their input both (financial and technical) for next season - will we see Ford doing the same, I very much doubt it. Even talk of a pay driver at a so called 'factory' team supports this.

If Massa and Fizzi end up at Sauber, we would see a privateer team with a better driver line up than Jaguar are likely to have in 2004.

The game has been raised and I wonder if Jaguar and Ford really want to/are able to play it for much longer.

Kicking-back · 17 Sep 2003, 11:44 (Ref:721699)

Quote:

Originally posted by Super Tourer

If Massa and Fizzi end up at Sauber, we would see a privateer team with a better driver line up than Jaguar are likely to have in 2004.

Webber and Wilson is a better driver line-up than Massa and Fisichella.

By far.

**Adam43** · 17 Sep 2003, 11:49 (Ref:721702)

I'm not sure that it true, kicking back. I reckon it is close between those two line-ups. And it may not even be Wilson (or Massa for that matter) it could be someone else.

Mark Webber · 17 Sep 2003, 11:49 (Ref:721704)

it would be hard to be the Fissi & massa line up

Super T. you can not compare Justin's and Mark's F3000 to F1
Mark was jugling F1 test with sesaon F3000 justin wasn't its an unfair comparsion

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