Red Bull buys back STR!

[Down F0rce]

Berger has sold his 50% of Toro Rosso back to Red Bull, who obviously now own the team 100%.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72252

[Marbot]

Interesting!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/72252

I feel a merge coming on.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I feel a merge coming on.

You felt right.

[broadrun96]

That move effectively would kill STR, correct? When they merge, it could only be the RBR 2 car team under F1 rules?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

That move effectively would kill STR, correct? When they merge, it could only be the RBR 2 car team under F1 rules?

It wouldn't be the first time that two teams on the grid have been owned by one person/company.

[Teretonga]

There is no point in a merger.
Both teams run the same technical property with the exception of the engine.

They have separate staff and operations bases but are probably completely free to exchange information if the owner wishes to.

Berger probably had to fund his half of the teams operations and was unable to raise the money necessary to do so.
DM probably wanted to have more say in who drives for him or control over the overall operation. He has deep pockets.

This way he returns STR to the RB fold completely.
Berger may still run the STR team for him. He is obviously an effective leader so why not, or will he move to RBR....?

There would only be a point in a merger if DM couldn't afford the two teams.
I think they will both run the 2009 year.
By the end of the 2009 year the customer car situation may be resolved in terms of favouring customer cars and this may be happening right now behind the scenes hence the change in direction...

[Marbot]

I would suggest that Red Bull have another buyer for the team that are also waiting to hear this news.

[courageous]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

DM probably wanted to have more say in who drives for him ...

I'm thinking this one.

From what I understand:

Buemi / Sato is the Red Bull marketing preferred choice.
Senna / Bourdais had the Berger vote.

Looks like a compramise couldn't be reached.

[Marbot]

I'm going with the 'We buy the whole lot or nothing' theory with regards to this move.There's no real reason for Mateschitz to have two whole teams unless he's got one to sell.It makes it easier to sell on if you own the whole team.

A statement issued tonight.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpa...s_art_id=36646

[Satorian]

So, good news for Bourdais as the team shouldn't be as cash-strapped anymore?

[BertMk2]

Maybe this way the Renault and Ferarri engines can be swapped for next year - so the senior team gets the Ferrari lump and the junior the Renault. Vettel has been "promoted" to the senior team - it would be embarassing if the junior team was quicker again

[Bononi]

Very interesting, as we might be seeing what will happen in the future...

[nycuk]

Buemi's a shoe-in for '09 then...

[broadrun96]

I meant if RBR was to completely merge with STR, would FOM make the teams run separate facilities to be counted as 2 different teams for constructors points. Wouldn't really save any money to have 2 teams but then have 2 of everything as well. And would it make the constructor vs buyer debate to flare and get under the Williams team's skin again? I know its barely different now but at least there was a slender appearance of 2 different teams.

[BootsOntheSide]

Dieter M has more to gain than lose from this. For 2009 he can use Ferrari engines in his first team's cars, and can choose the commercially-ideal drivers for the second car. If he's forced to sell the team after 2009, he should get at least what he's paid Berger for the shares.

[Marbot]

It's too late to be swapping engines from car to car.Most of the work on the new cars will have factored in the use of current power plants/transmissions etc.Not saying that it can't be done,but why compromise both cars?

[FPV GTHO]

Ferrari will have ensured the contracts were signed with the individual team and not the overall organisation after 2007, so i cant see Red Bull freely being able to swap the engines around without prior approval.

[Naruto]

why did he sell

[JeremySmith]

What does this all mean?

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Ferrari will have ensured the contracts were signed with the individual team and not the overall organisation after 2007, so i cant see Red Bull freely being able to swap the engines around without prior approval.

I suspect Ferrari won't really care provided they get their money (that is, they will approve whatever needs approving provided they figure they are getting the money they should).

[FPV GTHO]

Its not even a given anymore that the Ferrari engines would be a better option than the Renault engines. Next years cars are going to be pretty marginal on cooling with KERS and the lack of winglets, and Ferrari could be having a few issues between their engine that already requires alot of cooling and the Magnetti Marelli KERS.

[Satorian]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Its not even a given anymore that the Ferrari engines would be a better option than the Renault engines. Next years cars are going to be pretty marginal on cooling with KERS and the lack of winglets, and Ferrari could be having a few issues between their engine that already requires alot of cooling and the Magnetti Marelli KERS.

Renault is going to use the same KERS, so there should already be some commonality to exploit if they swapped them within RBR/STR.

I wondered about the switch at first too, but with the FIA equalizing engines in terms of performance, there actually might be no need to go for the Ferrari unit.

[Teretonga]

He says he sold because he can't see the team being as competitive in 2009 as it was in 2008 and doesn't want to go backwards.

In other words the rule changes are going to hurt the small teams the most and they won't have the oportunity to claw there way back into it for some time. Given Bernies ridiculous medals ideas we may not have ten teams in 2010...

[FPV GTHO]

I have to wonder if Berger really had his heart in it then. Falling back and rising forward is part of the way F1 works. Look at Williams the past few years, theyve finished 4th, 5th, 8th, 4th and 8th again in the WCC the past few years. I'm sure it was never a consideration to sell after 2007 because they felt they might not hold onto 4th.

[Teretonga]

I think his heart was in it. They never would have made the progress they did if that had not been the case.

I think that its quite possible the playing field has tilted ridiculously (within the Red Bull family) and its not even practical to contemplate any more.
Berger was absolutely dependent on Red Bull money and its quite possible that he who has the money makes the rules, so even though Berger owned 50% it wasn't like having 50% of the control to take the team to the next level and under the current rules it didn't look possible in the immediate or near future.

Besides if Didi has a buyer for the team, Berger may have decided that its not the sort of partnership he wants to be involved in. He says there is no rift between him and Didi so maybe its a mtter of what else is happening in Red Bulls structure and with STR.

I have always respected Berger. I don't think he is a quitter. Its not in his nature.