Max, Michelin & Maranello (merged)

PaulSands · 3 Sep 2003, 10:58 (Ref:706716)

Max denied it was Ferrari that made brought to the FIA's attention the appraent discrepancy with the post race Michelin tread width but now Ross Brawn has said it was Ferrari
So effectively Max lied to spare Ferrari's blushes..can we trust this man any longer? (if we hadn't already stopped doing so)

Red · 3 Sep 2003, 11:49 (Ref:706802)

Right, right..

ralf fan · 3 Sep 2003, 11:52 (Ref:706807)

so it was Ferrari after all!!

Glen · 3 Sep 2003, 11:52 (Ref:706808)

If Max revealed in public something confided to him in confidence that would be an untrustworthy act. What kind of climate would it encourage if every bit of juice was source-revealed? They want to stop rule-bending - a little discretion is an asset in that cause.

I cannot fathom why Max and Bernie are so derided - everything in F1 is decided by the teams (mostly) under the Concorde Agreement.

Glen · 3 Sep 2003, 11:53 (Ref:706810)

Where does Ross Brawn say it was Ferrari?

PaulSands · 3 Sep 2003, 11:58 (Ref:706813)

http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/17448

Red · 3 Sep 2003, 11:58 (Ref:706814)

Max did NOT deny that it was Ferrari. He simply said that Witting was already on it, before Ross Brawn came to them. Anyway, back to the problem: is Michelin ch..I mean creatively interpreting the rules?

Inigo Montoya · 3 Sep 2003, 12:02 (Ref:706819)

Well, according to Gazzetta... while Michelin is threatening to boycott GP's, they are also developing new tyres to meet the clarification of the regulation, and these allegedly have been already tested by one team. So, yeah, I think they have been.. ahem.. creatively interpreting the rules.

climb · 3 Sep 2003, 12:56 (Ref:706887)

According to Gazzetta (later) Michelin have declared thay are ready to run new tires; they saifd that, working 24hours a day since last wednesday, they have already made them available!
Isn't this even more unbelievable than Max's declarations?
It seems to show that Michelin were aware of thi risk, and had a spare model in the hole...

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2003, 13:07 (Ref:706904)

Or maybe they have been working really hard to get a new tyre out, just in case, but then I am not a tyre engineer.

Cobra · 3 Sep 2003, 14:45 (Ref:707003)

This Japanese photographer that was in the Paddock at Budapest.
That's fine!
Ferrari team members standing close by.
That's fine!
But at what point did he turn to the Ferrari team members to say, "Here have a look at what I have noticed" or when did they say to him, "can we have a look at your screen to see what you are capturing" just how did the two come into contact for conversation at that particular time and for what reason?
and then for them all to go off in search of a FIA official, What the...

Glen · 3 Sep 2003, 14:49 (Ref:707014)

I've heard rumours of Michelin having very fast mobile tyre manufacturing facilities - so, provided they have a supply of slimmer carcasses ready to add rubber to, I guess they are uniquely well-placed to deal with a mini-crisis of this nature.

speedbump · 3 Sep 2003, 14:57 (Ref:707021)

I really don't understand the problem. Or Ferrari just crying.

If there is a Michelin tyre problem, I would think that would have been caught by race officals in the beginning of the season.
Aren't F1 cars checked, measured, weighed and all that other magic stuff race officials do during races.

Why a tyre problem now ?

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2003, 15:03 (Ref:707028)

Quote:

Originally posted by Cobra
But at what point did he turn to the Ferrari team members to say, "Here have a look at what I have noticed" or when did they say to him, "can we have a look at your screen to see what you are capturing" just how did the two come into contact for conversation at that particular time and for what reason?

Really, who cares. It is impossible for us to ever know these precise details of how this came about, so IMHO it is not really worth worrying about. I can't say it will make me see the Michelin teams or Ferrari or the FIA or a photographer in any different light. Partly because we don't (and won't) know the full details and partly because it doesn't matter.

chrisgr31 · 3 Sep 2003, 15:09 (Ref:707035)

If Michelin have been running the same yres all year why did it take Ferrari so long to spot it?

On the other hand if the tyres are illegal Michelin shouldn't be supplying them in the first place.

Glen · 3 Sep 2003, 15:15 (Ref:707043)

Michelin have been a bit disingenuous in their defence of these tyres - they only went to the full width from Monaco onwards, so even though they may be accurate in saying that the basic shape or structure hasn't changed since 2001 it is only in recent races that they have been going over the full 270mm. added to which there have been statements about the tyres being used differently, which I guess might mean ways in which they can maximise the car set-up to wear at that inside shoulder as much as possible, thus to alter the shape.

Inigo Montoya · 3 Sep 2003, 15:26 (Ref:707054)

Max's argument is exactly that - they have reason to believe that the tyres were changed in Hungary from what they had previously. If that's the case, seeing as they were dominant most of the season, this probably won;t make a difference.

Mal · 3 Sep 2003, 15:30 (Ref:707059)

Quote:

Originally posted by Glen
Michelin have been a bit disingenuous in their defence of these tyres - they only went to the full width from Monaco onwards, so even though they may be accurate in saying that the basic shape or structure hasn't changed since 2001 it is only in recent races that they have been going over the full 270mm. added to which there have been statements about the tyres being used differently, which I guess might mean ways in which they can maximise the car set-up to wear at that inside shoulder as much as possible, thus to alter the shape.

Funny that that seems to coincide with the return to form from Williams!

**Spudgun** · 3 Sep 2003, 15:36 (Ref:707066)

Quote:

Originally posted by speedbump
I really don't understand the problem. Or Ferrari just crying.

If there is a Michelin tyre problem, I would think that would have been caught by race officals in the beginning of the season.
Aren't F1 cars checked, measured, weighed and all that other magic stuff race officials do during races.

Why a tyre problem now ?

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisgr31
If Michelin have been running the same yres all year why did it take Ferrari so long to spot it?

Because Ferrari are losing at the moment. They didn't really care when they were winning.

If it is true that this has happened since Hungary, it hasn't seemed to affect the trend from before then.

What I'm even more appalled about however is that the FIA are actually acting on it with only three races to go in one of the most exciting seasons we've had for years. Are they mad?

Why can't we have a normal racing season for once? Surely this is something that can be held off until the off-season at least.

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2003, 15:41 (Ref:707069)

Quote:

Mal
Funny that that seems to coincide with the return to form from Williams!

er, well, yes. Michelin introduced a new tyre to be more competitive! Otherwise they wouldn't have. It is not strange that this brought about an increase in speed of one of their teams - it is why they did it.

Introduction of a new part is done to improve the car! The facT that it did does not make it an illegal (or legal).

Glen · 3 Sep 2003, 15:45 (Ref:707072)

I'm not sure that all of the improvement from Williams can be put down to this - they have after all done a hell of a lot of work on aerodynamics (and presumably loads of other stuff that we can't see). The wider tyre did help them find a balance that had eluded them previously though, or so I've read, so if they end up with a little of their early season gemlins coming back the season end coud be even tighter.

I would like to withdraw my thread about the season being anti-climactic!

Liz · 3 Sep 2003, 16:11 (Ref:707089)

So now all the people who said it wasn't Ferrari and we're all conspiracy theorist crackpots, are you going to apologize?

Sometimes it IS Ferrari.

Mal · 3 Sep 2003, 16:18 (Ref:707099)

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
er, well, yes. Michelin introduced a new tyre to be more competitive! Otherwise they wouldn't have. It is not strange that this brought about an increase in speed of one of their teams - it is why they did it.

Introduction of a new part is done to improve the car! The facT that it did does not make it an illegal (or legal).

No it doesnt, but it is possible and if it is illegal something should be done and it should not be used. If not then that should be made clear and the issue put to bed.

I am not trying to jump on either side of the fence. To me it should be a black and white issue - is it legal or not.

Of course I realise things are not that simple in F1. Bernie might be thinking that a little controversy will boost the ratings

ASCII Man · 3 Sep 2003, 16:23 (Ref:707104)

More people would turn off their tv's instead of turning them on...

Mal · 3 Sep 2003, 16:27 (Ref:707111)

Quote:

Originally posted by ASCII Man
More people would turn off their tv's instead of turning them on...

Enthusiasts maybe but not the casual veiwer which is what Bernie seems to want

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