What would you do to the WTCC?

[I Rosputnik]

(Stealing this idea from the sportscar and GT forum)

Right, so as we all know right now the World Touring Car Chapionship, hasn't had the best of times recently (TDI engines dominating, the safety car fail last year, the farse that was Marrakech 2010) but next year the series is getting new regulations; smaller engines and bigger wheels.

There will be some happy about this and some unhappy.

So what would you do the WTCC, if you were in Marcello Lotti posistion?
Would you go with bigger faster cars like Italy's Superstars Series, or would you go with smaller cars like Argentina's TC2000 has?

And then what tracks would you have as well?

It's all up to you.

(I'll do mine later.)

[NaBUru38]

TC2000s aren't smaller. Civics, Corollas, faux Vectras, 307s and Lineas have exactly the same size as the Leons, 3ers and Cruzes. TC2000s have slightly more power (320-340hp), a little more downforce and harder tyres.

WTCC should copy most aspects of the TC2000. First of all, most TC2000 weekends have a sprint race (45km or 25min) and a feature race (110km or 50min). They should copy that for most races (perhaps 20min and 45min), but have one or two 100min pseudo-endurance races with invited drivers from national touring car championships.

Cars should have wider wheelarches and side skirts/bumpers. These not only make cars look mean, they also allow more rubbing without affecting performance. A little more performance and a little less downforce. Keep road-based four-cylinders - adopting turbochargers is brilliant.

Tracks are more or less fine. France deserves one. Keep at least four non-European dates.

[Speed-King]

I have a lot of ideas, but they don't add up to a consistent picture. So this is rather a list I'd like to see in touring car racing, though not necessarily in one and the same series:
- Multiclass Racing: traffic creates overtaking opportunities and in an age when manufacturers can be no longer content with just participating in a series, it helps to bring more manufacturer teams into a series, most or all of those with a decent shot at some good results. I would, however, not go overboard with the multiclass thing, definitely no more than 2 or perhaps 3 classes of cars.
- Superstars sounds like a decent enough starting point for a big class, but I'd also encourage participation of American muscle cars like the Camaro and the Mustang (not sure if these are allowed under current Superstars rules).
I would do something about those rear-wings, though. Many Superstars cars have really hideous wing-supports, so I'd go to GT-style wing-mounts there.
- the smaller class would have similar rules, but for cars with smaller displacement - Guess I'd draw the line somewhere around 3,5l.
- A wide variety of formats: Combined Endurance Races where all classes start together and single-class sprint races (grid sizes permitting, of course). If there are to be sprint races, the bigger class gets to do two 100k races per weekend, whereas the smaller does 2x 75k. The ratio of endurance two sprint races would be 1:2, i.e. 5 endurance events and 10 sprint-weekends. Endurance races are 500k, except Spa.
- Calender: For the time being, I would limit myself to racing in Europe and stick mostly to classical touring car circuits
- Jarama
- Zolder
- Hockenheim (short circuit)
- Brands Hatch GP*
- Monza
- Zandvoort
- Anderstorp* (Saturday-evening race under the midnight sun)
- Norisring
- Spa 24 hours*
- Oulton Park
- Mugello*
- Dijon
- Brno*
- Salzburgring.
- Bilbao Street Circuit (is that one still used?)

*denotes endurance race

[duke_toaster]

Bilbao was only used once IIRC. Racing only in Europe would also stop it being the WTCC. I'm jotting my ideas together now.

[I Rosputnik]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

TC2000s aren't smaller. Civics, Corollas, faux Vectras, 307s and Lineas have exactly the same size as the Leons, 3ers and Cruzes. TC2000s have slightly more power (320-340hp), a little more downforce and harder tyres.

WTCC should copy most aspects of the TC2000. First of all, most TC2000 weekends have a sprint race (45km or 25min) and a feature race (110km or 50min). They should copy that for most races (perhaps 20min and 45min), but have one or two 100min pseudo-endurance races with invited drivers from national touring car championships.

Cars should have wider wheelarches and side skirts/bumpers. These not only make cars look mean, they also allow more rubbing without affecting performance. A little more performance and a little less downforce. Keep road-based four-cylinders - adopting turbochargers is brilliant.

Tracks are more or less fine. France deserves one. Keep at least four non-European dates.

My bad.
I envy what you get over in Argentina, brings back memories of the old supertouring days.

Here's the current regs.
Part 1
Part 2

[duke_toaster]

Some thoughts in no particular order.

• Introduction of an expanded version of the NGTC rules. Engines would be uprated to around 450hp-500hp. 4WD and FWD base models would be converted to RWD. Large rear wings, if the NGTC ones aren't wide enough.
• Sprint and feature format. 25 minute (with one CPS) Sprint race for no points determines the starting order for the one hour (one CPS).
• Possible consideration of some events to have the feature on the Saturday at a later timeslot.
• Get someone else running the commercial rights, might have a chance of it being on a broadcaster other than ITV4 in the UK.

Calendar, in no particular order

Northern Europe : Silverstone, Anderstorp
Southern Europe : Porto, Rijeka
Central Europe : Pau, Zandvoort, Norisring (poached from DTM)
Eastern Europe : Poznan, Brno
Africa : Marrakech
Asia : Suzuka (East course), Macau

[Quintin03]

I´d like to see a four round endurance series of which every round pays four times the points of a regular round. Then there´d be a ten double round sprint championship. I´d like to see two classes together in the endurance races and separated in the sprints running at the same tracks. The larger class would run 3 litre V6 "S3000's" and the smaller class would have modified TC2000 regulations which also allow 1.6 turbocharged vehicles. The actual world championship would be all rounds of the sub-championship minus either four sprints in two weekends or one endurance. I don't know about a calendar but Spa 24h and Bathurst would be on.

[dyewat808]

Yeah, I'd be definitely for having endurance events, just to shake the calendar up a bit.

Can't think of anything else yet though...

[I Rosputnik]

My rules would feature two classes, A-Spec and B-Spec

Common rules
-Fuel used must be 20% bio-fuel (As a development of the WTCC's approach to being environmentally friendly)
-Cars run together on Endurance races.
-AWD is banned.
-Diesel is banned unless a cheep engine can be produced.

B-Spec - WTCC answer to F2/GP2, a feeder to A-Spec.
Aimed at smaller teams and rookies who want to enter a World Championship, but lack funds to enter A-Spec.
18 cars maximum.
S1600 cars similar to the cars that will be used in WRC next year, but with body kits similar to TC2000 cars.
Teams must have at least 1 or 2 cars.
Professional drivers may enter to help car development.
Manufacturer teams would be allowed to enter, but only if they have entered a team into A-spec.
All cars must be lengthwise 3900 mm to 4600mm
Shorter races - Between half and ¾ of an A-Spec race.
Saloons preferred, but Hatchback are allowed.
Ideal cars - Ford Fiesta/Focus, Peugeot 207/308, Nissan Tiida/Sentra, Chevrolet Aevo/Cruze.

A-Spec - Premier category.
Aimed at Manufacturer teams, professional outfits and experienced drivers. Manufacturers may want to use this class as a way of showcasing their flagship model.
24 cars maximum.
NGTC regulations, however turbochargers are allowed.
Teams must run 2 cars.
Professional drivers only.
All cars must be lengthwise 4500 mm to 5100 mm.
Saloons only.
Ideal cars - Opel Insignia, BMW 5 series, Ford Mondeo/Fusion, Porsche Panamera, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima, Infiniti G37 Saloon.

Events
F1 style qualifying to begin with.
B-Spec would feature 2 sprint races, while A-Spec would feature 1 sprint race and 1 feature race.
Endurance races would feature both classes racing together.


Tracklist

1. Autódromo José Carlos Pace (Interlagos)
2. Autódromo Juan y Oscar Galvez (Buenos Aires)
3. Mosport International Raceway
4. Circuit Mont-Tremblant
5. Marrakech Street Circuit (Heavily revised)
6. Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari (Imola)
7. Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours
8. Circuit Zolder
9. Brands Hatch
10. Autódromo Internacional do Algarve
11. Motorsport Arena Oschersleben
12. Mantorp Park
13. Phillip Island Grand Prix Circuit
14. Sepang International Circuit
15. Okayama International Circuit
16. Guia Circuit

It may not suit everyone tastes, but that’s what I’ve come up with.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

Some thoughts in no particular order.

• Introduction of an expanded version of the NGTC rules. Engines would be uprated to around 450hp-500hp. 4WD and FWD base models would be converted to RWD. Large rear wings, if the NGTC ones aren't wide enough.
• Sprint and feature format. 25 minute (with one CPS) Sprint race for no points determines the starting order for the one hour (one CPS).
• Possible consideration of some events to have the feature on the Saturday at a later timeslot.
• Get someone else running the commercial rights, might have a chance of it being on a broadcaster other than ITV4 in the UK.

Calendar, in no particular order

Northern Europe : Silverstone, Anderstorp
Southern Europe : Porto, Rijeka
Central Europe : Pau, Zandvoort, Norisring (poached from DTM)
Eastern Europe : Poznan, Brno
Africa : Marrakech
Asia : Suzuka (East course), Macau

That's pretty much my thoughts!
In addition I would make shure to keep downforce to a minimum and from the beginning decide on an engine formula that closes all possibillity of complaining about the advantages of different fuels etc.

As for circuits I would like to see:

Brands Hatch
Anderstorp
Nürburgring, Nordschleife* (They do run some fast race cars there in VLN so it shouldn't be impossible)
Brno
Monza
Zandvoort
Spa-Francorchamps*
Dijon-Prenois
Portimao
Potrero de los Funes*
Interlagos
Road Atlanta
Sentul
Suzuka
Macau

(No particular order)
* Denotes 6hr endurance race with normal qualification, the others run by dukes model.

[NaBUru38]

The WTCC doesn't reach 30 cars and you propose more classes?

By "pseudo endurance" I meant 80-120 minutes. Six-hour races today belong to Le Mans.

The Camaro and Mustang are GTs, not touring cars.

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Superstars sounds like a decent enough starting point for a big class

- the smaller class would have similar rules, but for cars with smaller displacement - Guess I'd draw the line somewhere around 3,5l.

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

an expanded version of the NGTC rules. Engines would be uprated to around 450hp-500hp. 4WD and FWD base models would be converted to RWD. Large rear wings, if the NGTC ones aren't wide enough.

DTM and Italian Superstars can survive in Europe as Nascar does in the United States and V8 Supercars in Australian. But large sedans aren't the future of world touring car racing, Four-cylinder C-segment cars are.

[Quintin03]

Hey, it's what we want, not what we think would work best.

[Speed-King]

The WTCC doesn't reach 30 cars and you propose more classes?

Here's why:
Nowadays manufacturers can't justify racing without some measurable success (i.e. wins). In any given series only a limited number of manufacturers will ever regularly compete for victories, those that don't will sooner or later leave the series at least as far as their official factory team is concerned, which means as a net result: less variety.
If you have two classes, you have double the amount of victories to gain every weekend, and manufacturers that don't have a chance in class one, can give it a shot in class two.
So ideally, a multiclass format leads to more manufacturer participation, more diversity and more action.

As for the Mustang and the Camaro: These have a history of competing in touring car races and if you allow M3s and S5s like Superstars does, you have no reason for excluding those. And - at least in their home market - these are rather cheap cars (I think you can get a Mustang cheaper than a Golf GTI in the US), so that's also an indication of them being touring cars rather than GTs, which is usually a designation reserved to much more expensive cars.
Oh, and did I mention that they are badass?

[I Rosputnik]

Just some thoughts.

My first idea was to try attract a wide range of cars. What I've noticed is two things in the market right now. A current trend of large sports based saloons, like the Aston Martin Rapide and Porsche Panameria, while also an increase in compacts. It would be a shame just to leave them in the showroom and not see them race against each other for all of their "sportyness".

The idea of two classes was to as previously mentioned to attract a greater range of cars and to offer a range of talent.

However there are two things that I would need to look at with multiclass touringcars.
1. Both classes can be strong, so you can avoid the whole GT1, GT2 thing in sports car racing.
2. The faster class doesn't turn into something that is not touringcars.

I will be trying single class regulations later, aiming for a middle ground.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

DTM and Italian Superstars can survive in Europe as Nascar does in the United States and V8 Supercars in Australian. But large sedans aren't the future of world touring car racing, Four-cylinder C-segment cars are.

These cars would be like many of the current WTCC machinery. The models would be of the sort intended for NGTC - EuroNCAP Small Family Car and Large Family Car.

Note that on my calendar I largely selected countries that don't have F1 rounds. Hence the races in France, Portugal, Sweden, The Netherlands, Croatia and Poland.

By "broadcaster other than ITV4", I actually meant "broadcaster other than Eurosport".

[I Rosputnik]

For those wondering what the NGTC rules are here's a handy little link.

So it's still 2.0 L engines, and your still looking at cars like the Ford Focus, Renault Fluence and Fiat Linea.

[Sodemo]

Firstly, you can guarantee the front wheel drive teams would be against any endurance type race, as their front tyres would just get chewed to bits well before the BMW's with their better balance and tyre life.

Several key things that I would like to see done.

- Longer races (instead of 9 laps of Monza, make it 15)

- Peg back that VAG diesel engine for gods sake. Restrictor limit please.

- Bigger weight breaks for older cars, how about a 60kg reduction for cars over 5 years old?

- Give the cars bigger wheels, 18" is about right.

- Give the cars slightly more power, needs to be around 330-350bhp.

- Keep the series more Euro centric to keep costs down.

- Improve the rubbish Eurosport coverage (somehow?!) - see thread in the Le Mans forum.

[Icebaby]

Coverage dreadful as stated, commentators not given enough of a role, pit walks and garage visits. I thought it died when Alfa Romeo left finally in 2007 its not the same without them...

[I Rosputnik]

Eurosport has terrible coverage. Everytime I hear that "Race, ya gotta go fasta!" I feel like flinging my remote at the TV. Also the graphics are very dated. Why can't it have the sort of graphics GT1 or F1 has?

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Keep the series more Euro centric to keep costs down.

Then rename it to European Touring Car Championship. It's like the Intercontinental Rally Challenge, which races this year in Argentina, Brazil, Açores and the rest of the rounds in Europe.

[duke_toaster]

The ISC requires three continents for it to be a World Championship. I suppose you could have Turkey + Marrakech + 10 races in Europe? However, I still think Macau is a good race to have on the calendar, with a race in Africa they could easily dump the Mexico and Brazil flyaways.

[NaBUru38]

What's the point of a World Championship if you don't want it to be really worldwide?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Then rename it to European Touring Car Championship. It's like the Intercontinental Rally Challenge, which races this year in Argentina, Brazil, Açores and the rest of the rounds in Europe.

It should be called the ETCC in any case - it surely doesn't deserve the "world" title when it runs mainly in Europe with largely European cars does it?

To my mind, a World Championship should be a pinnacle - best cars, best teams, best drivers etc.

The current WTCC doesn't have any of those factors, although the drivers are among the best and some of the teams would be up there too.

Would be nice to see them move away from the small engined, buzz box approach to something a bit more edgy - like DTM but without the crazy bodywork. Don't see V8 Supercar type cars having enough interest to a wide range of countries for that type of car to be considered but if the current cars were updated with bigger engines, more rubber and were a lot wilder to watch and drive, that would be a positive thing.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by Tourer

It should be called the ETCC in any case - it surely doesn't deserve the "world" title when it runs mainly in Europe with largely European cars does it?

All FIA World Championships run the majority, or near the majority, of their rounds in Europe. That's because that's where most of the teams are based.

To my mind, a World Championship should be a pinnacle - best cars, best teams, best drivers etc.

The current WTCC doesn't have any of those factors, although the drivers are among the best and some of the teams would be up there too.

Best cars? Built to the S2000 rules, they have the best cars.
Best teams? RML, WSR, RBM et al would argue that the WTCC has the best cars.
Best drivers? Tarquini, Turkington (OK, on a part season run), Alain Menu, Yvan Muller - I'd say the WTCC has the best drivers.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

All FIA World Championships run the majority, or near the majority, of their rounds in Europe. That's because that's where most of the teams are based.

True. However, having just two rounds outside Europe in a 8 or 13-round championship and call it World Championship is lying. 4 out of 12 races outside Europe as now is fine to me.