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5 Feb 2001, 20:42 (Ref:62697) | #1 | ||
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Quote:
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9 Feb 2001, 21:22 (Ref:63689) | #2 | |
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Go back 10 years and these moves would have no attention when Senna and Mansell did this all the time..what a sham F1 is now that any overtaking done is considered brilliant..Thank god for touring cars.
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9 Feb 2001, 21:59 (Ref:63699) | #3 | |
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go back 10 years and look how great the technology is now compared to then. f1 isn't 4 people who like 2 live in the past. if u don't like it don't watch it.
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9 Feb 2001, 22:18 (Ref:63715) | #4 | ||
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Oo, I've got to respond to that.
Perhaps you could say they have moved on from the technology of a decade ago. But go back to 15 years ago, and you will find turbo cars which had 20% more power than the best of them could muster today. I know that the debate over past years versus present has been played out on this forum before, but I wonder if the current F1 fans have any idea of the motivation behind us fogeys going on about the old days. If I came to F1 in - say - 1998, I would be blown away by it. I would think it was absolutely stunning. But I was taken to my first GP in 1973, and I was hooked even before then. The golden era for me was 1983-87, when the cars looked outlandish, seemed just a little uncontrollable, and were tamed by a collection of drivers whose names are still whispered with reverence. And I know that F1 can be better than its current incarnation. And I want it to be better than its current incarnation. One day it will be, and I want that day to come quickly. I want to feel so enthused about a forthcoming GP that I beg or borrow a ticket and fight my way to the front of the crowd. That isn't living in the past. That's hoping for a better future. Right now, I don't like it much, and I only watch it out of habit. But most weekends of the summer you'll see me trackside - watching motor racing. |
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9 Feb 2001, 22:30 (Ref:63727) | #5 | |
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They had stickshifts, too. I still remember seeing Gerhard Berger racing with his hands bandaged...
Banzai laps on quallie tyres... Mansell selling Piquet the dummy down Stowe in 86... Stefan Johansson finishing third on three wheels...(where was that? Germany? Austria?) - the whole last lap with a burst tyre! Alesi in the rain, France 92 (Aw Jeez, don't get me started on classic Alesi moments!) Mansell pushing his JPS Lotus to the line, and collapsing with exhaustion... Hey - don't tell me the past isn't worth re-living! "There is not a Jean Alesi without a fighter heart." |
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10 Feb 2001, 00:08 (Ref:63773) | #6 | |
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Well, im only young so i dont remember such things, but i was at spa, and i thought Mika's move was brilliant. You dont see much like that anymore!
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10 Feb 2001, 09:14 (Ref:63852) | #7 | ||
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Sorry Elise,
but it's a sad state of affairs when what should be an everyday event is nominated as the high point of the season. Well said Tim and Comrade! Alesi, umm, a fighting heart and a case of a guy who should have seen a career guidence counsellor years ago. Hanging around with Go Hard Berger could only last for so long. |
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10 Feb 2001, 09:57 (Ref:63861) | #8 | ||
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Common guys, things are bad enough as it is. Don't ruin my year!! As it is I have to stay up until 11pm or later to watch a GP, and try to stay awake.
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10 Feb 2001, 10:15 (Ref:63863) | #9 | ||
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Well, Valve Bounce, in an effort to improve your day, this is what I'm holding out hope for in the new season.
A nice, hearty tyre war, like the old days. It's just possible that could spice things up nicely. And what would really be the icing on the cake would be if everyone's tyres all wore down to slick by the end of the race, so the FIA were forced to disqualify everyone or accept that smooth can stay... I never go into a season downcast. |
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10 Feb 2001, 13:33 (Ref:63909) | #10 | |
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I saw my first Grand Prix (not live) in 1999. I'm only 14 years old.
And Hakkinen's pass was good, but Barrichello's win from 18th is way better, and so is Schumi's 2000 World Drivers' Chapionship win. |
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10 Feb 2001, 15:30 (Ref:63937) | #11 | ||
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Interlagos - another young'un on the boards!
The first race I watched was Silverstone 1996, and I thought F1 was incredibly exciting (it wasn't that great then, but it was compared to how it is now). But having watched races from the 80s (I've flogged the 89 review to death), I can safely say that F1 was a hell of a lot more exciting then. Sure, Hakkinen's move was excellent (and I don't think anyone is disputing that). But the fact is that it should be happening more often, therefore a lot of people see no need to make such a big deal out of it. |
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10 Feb 2001, 15:59 (Ref:63946) | #12 | ||
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Nice one
Quote:
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10 Feb 2001, 16:29 (Ref:63953) | #13 | ||
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Tim as usual displays his thoughtful eloquence. I am particularly taken by the point that
...I know that F1 can be better than its current incarnation. And I want it to be better than its current incarnation. ... That isn't living in the past. That's hoping for a better future. The fact is elise, many of have been F1 fans for a long time. I first became interested during the mid-sixties and have been an avid fan since 1971. Its not that we are longing for a return to the past and have allowed our nostalgia to color an unrealistic perception of those days. We know that Formula One can be about racing and that there are drivers in the sport whose talents are not rewarded because the rules as they stand don't promote racing on the track. I,too, watch out of habit, but I am bored more often than not. Hakkinen's pass at Spa was a ballsy move and bravo to him for having pulled it off. But recognising it as the moment of the season only demonstrates how poor the show has become. |
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10 Feb 2001, 16:52 (Ref:63962) | #14 | ||
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Well said TimD !
I felt the same about this "priceless moment", because it shows the sad current state of F1. Should the powers that be, look at this as a "red altert" ? Or should they take this as a compliment ? Well, that award has the goal of summarize all moments of the championship in only a top one, so there is no question that all those experts took the thrilling of a overtaking as the most important moment in a race. Something that is missing in a lap-by-lap race these days. Why anybody pointed that fast pit stop wich gave the 1st place to TGF in Suzuka as the "Priceless moment of 2000 F1" ??? |
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10 Feb 2001, 23:56 (Ref:64057) | #15 | ||
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Overtaking and Racing
Overtaking and racing is possible. Just ban those front and rear wings, and reduce the tyres to half the current width. This will bring back slipstreaming, and overtaking. And don't tell me that is impossible. I went to the Brisbane show and Mercedes had photos of the pre-war GP cars, and could not believe the skinny tyres. Contrary to popular opinion, those "wings" are not there to make the cars lap faster, their primary objective are to act as billboards for advertisements. The big problem is, if you ban those wings, where are you going to put all the advertisements?
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11 Feb 2001, 14:40 (Ref:64189) | #16 | ||
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Bring back the Turbos and the big fat tires! Oh, wait, that's Champ Carx.... Once we get Champ Cars on road circuits in Euroupe, F1 will either pull up its sox or disappear.
Max will be devastated that the pit stop didn't win the "priceless moment" as he is convinced that is what we all tune in to watch. I have a dream. Simply rebroadcast the entire 1979 season immediately following the current season's races. Let people compare them. It's my considered opinion that if you put the current group of pilots in the 1979 cars, with plenty of testing beforehand, at the end of the second lap only Jean Alesi, Juan Pablo Montoya and maybe Jacques would still be on the piste. The remainder of the field would be crashed out or parked and sobbing by the roadside. |
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11 Feb 2001, 22:42 (Ref:64274) | #17 | ||
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A few laps of the race from 79 at each circuit just prior to the corresponding races this year would be most interesting and entertaining. We could see the old maestros and their superb cars before every race. That would be wonderful. Beats listening to Alan Jones gabbling on with Darryl Eastlake about trivia.
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12 Feb 2001, 22:23 (Ref:64436) | #18 | |
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i agree there should be more over taking and slicks should come back, f1 can get boring at times, i wasn't necessarily saying it was a priceless moment i just thought i'd point out the technology. i'm sure i'd agree with you all if i was old enough to know better.
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12 Feb 2001, 23:28 (Ref:64454) | #19 | ||
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Please don't get me wrong, Elise. It's not a question of being old enough to know better. There are times I wish I was fresh to the sport and was seeing Formula 1 racing without any preconceptions.
The great thing is, though, there is so much fabulous history to the sport which is quite readily accessible, which hopefully might enthuse you even more. I mean, my own consuming interest is in Outer Circuit racing at Brooklands - a formula and a circuit which were closed and buried nearly 30 years before I was born! All I know are the books, and the grainy b/w film footage, and the enthusiasm of my Grandfather who shared his memories with me. You don't have to have been there to fall in love with it! |
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14 Feb 2001, 14:37 (Ref:64716) | #20 | ||
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Tim, I agree with you on this:
"The golden era for me was 1983-87, when the cars looked outlandish, seemed just a little uncontrollable, and were tamed by a collection of drivers whose names are still whispered with reverence." And I can tell you something, your time will come with Montoya, you'll see!, he drives like those from the past. |
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14 Feb 2001, 21:54 (Ref:64770) | #21 | |
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Poor elise
Poor elise thought this was a forum for F1 fans
unaware it's full of whinning wrinklies 10-15 yrs ago F1 was a lot better..... Senna ..the sun used to shine out his ass Blah ! Blah ! Blah ! Same old Cr*p day in day out GET A LIFE LIVE IN THE NOW ! Or how about posting on the Old Gits forum where you can all whinge and whine till your hearts content. |
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14 Feb 2001, 22:07 (Ref:64773) | #22 | ||
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This will be the year to remember - new tyre, 6 works teams and one semi works, new drivers with great potential, and a new World Champion by the end of the season. Why look back when we have what it takes for an exciting season now. If you have to whisper names, start with our present drivers who are just as good, if not better, than those of the past. For those who don't like TGF, there are others like Mika, DC, Eddie, Ralf, Fisi, Jarno, Bunsen, Rubens, Alesi, Olivier, Jacques, JPM, ......I could go on. These guys are all great drivers. Let's forget about "they don't make them like they used to", and enjoy "wow, we've never had it so good". Otherwise, go and watch bike racing instead, which is really exciting. Look upon the donut, not the hole!!
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14 Feb 2001, 23:45 (Ref:64814) | #23 | |||
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Re: Poor elise
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Forgive me for taking you to task, Billy mate, but surely there shouldn't be an "h" in that word there...! Anyway, if you're content with one whiz-bang overtaking move per season, then great. Go for it. Glad you enjoy the spectacle. I'll be watching some motor racing instead. |
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15 Feb 2001, 00:27 (Ref:64820) | #24 | ||
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Senna? Who on earth was talking about that upstart?
People who "Live in the Now" with no reference to the foundations that made the "Now" what it is, are nothing but Langoliers. Things are not necessarily better just because they are newer, and anybody who tries to tell me that Eddie Irvine and Luca Burti are better pilots than Mario Andretti and Gilles Villeneuve can save his breath. P.S. to Billy: there is only one "n" in "whining." Which is the American word for whingeing. |
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15 Feb 2001, 05:29 (Ref:64840) | #25 | ||
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Look!! I can start with my favourites from Fangio, Moss, Brabham, Graham Hill, Jimmy Clark, Rindt, Petersen, Jones, Lauda, Piquet, Mansell, Alain, Stewart, and so on... the list is endless, and I enjoyed their involvement in F1. But lets not think the less of the current crop of drivers who are just as good and also fitter nowadays. If our present day guys were not just as good as their predecessors, they wouldn't be in F1.
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