Backmarkers !!!!!

[marcus]

well Russel Ingall has done it again by slagging off at the backmarkers at bathurst..this guy gets on my nerves and deserves a kick in the pants ..but he does have a few points but name calling is definately out of the question..he has no right in attacking these guys and now how can they take him seriously if he decides to offer them his help and experience..but what can be done..seriously.

limit the grid to 45 cars..sure that would help a bit but i like to see more cans rather than less..one option that i think needs to be looked at is a kind of v8 supercar superlicence..where a driver must have competed in a certain amount of V8 races during the year to race at bathurst..it is crazy to think that a guy could come straight from HQ's to V8's and firstly be competitive and secondly be competent enough to now whats going on around him...i know a guy who races HQ's and occasionally F.ford who is hoping to raise the cash to drive at bathurst next year..the guy must be bonkers because there is no way he will be competitive..even though he is a pretty good HQ driver and has shown realativly good speed in F Ford in his 2 race meetings both at bathurst.

I dont know what the answer is but Ingall is way over the top in his comments..these guys are living a dream and anyone of us would swap places with the last qualifier just to get a chance to race at bathurst..they are competent race drivers in their own right (whether in V8's is yet to be proven) and deserve the chance to race there.

getting back to the licence criteria..maybe 3 shell rounds or 4 or five konica lites rounds is required..but I guess that would then take away a fair chunk of their budgets for bathurst..and then we have the problem of International drivers never having raced a V8 before..like Muller and Plato..but they are proven race winners so i guess they are up to russel's standards.

I would like to get a serious debate going ober this issue and see what we the fans can come up with to keep the top line drivers happy as well as making is safe and fair for the privateer drivers..

come on what do you think should be done ????

[Warwick]

Everyone was a backmarker at some time even Russel,and I can remember Brock,Johnson etc in years gone by commenting on the problem.

I agree that there should be some kind on minimum licence/expirience level,as some people only used to come out once a year to do Bathurst with virtually no racing in between.

The slower cars should try and use there rear vision mirrors a bit more and pay attention to to the flag points as well.
Perhaps the teams could use spotters as in Nascar to warn their drivers about faster coming up behind them.

I'd be willing to bet in ten years time someone will still be mouthing off about backmarkers,and people will still be trying to come up with a solution.

[Danielsun]

I can see one slight problem with the 'spotter' theory in Touring Cars: they don't race on ovals whereby from one point on the track you can see the rest of it. Unless each and every team has sensors built in to the cars there's no way this could work.

Once-a-year drivers should not be allowed into such an important race, especially as it's a part of the overall Championship now...

[mtpanorama]

Ingall has stirred them all up again with his comments about backmarkers.
Richard Mork has called in his solicitors looking to get aan appology out of Ingall.
Russel apparently said "There are at least 15 cars out there that are worse than Richard Mork". Morky has taken offence to that comment, but I think it will be the only time morky will be better than 15 people.
Russel also had words with morky and Gary Holt about there driving saying to morky that he bumped him a couple of times across the top because he wouldnt move, the only problem was that it wasnt morky behind the wheel, but his co driver.
Gary Holt is also looking for an appology arfter being included in Russels worst 15.
If we have no backmarkers there will be no front runners.They will keep culling the feild down untill we have a series of supersprints because know-one wants to be on the track with anyone else.
mtpanorama

[Crash Test]

How about rookie sessions, and orientations. Like the Indy 500. Get all of the rookies and once a year demons out there in a bus with brock and make sure they can do a 2:25 lap time by the end.

About Richard Mork: I'd like to see Russell Ingall give him a race in HQs, the enforcer would get a hosing! Also I would like to see Ingall build his own car and do the spanners on it....

Licensing: Don't blame Avesco, it is a Cams ruling. To keep your license you only have to race one meeting a year, and it may as well be Bathurst. To get that license you only need to race at 5 meetings to get 5 signitures. I know of some guys who have rented out a HQ for 5 meetings, pottered around the rear of the field, came last, got their signiture, and went off to V8s. I agree, it's not good enough.

Looking at flag points? That's a problem, you can't see them. Trust me, a great many flag points are just in positions to satisfy insurance needs. Drivers don't go around looking at them.

[Airhead]

My God this issue (as stated previously) is as old as the mountain itself. I remember Allan Moffatt saying the same. But then I would wouldn't I.

As for Morky, hep, he swings the spanners because he has to and deserves the chance to drive at Bathurst. Just in another class. Really though Mork is at least a regular competitor, the weekend guys in 10 year old cars should have left them at home.

Ingal is as always incredibly painful. But just because he has no tact doesn't mean he is wrong. I hope he has to Mork some cash though.

[kmchow]

I guess Ingall is concerned about safety.

But look at the many pros--you get a very full grid of cars with nice sponsors that probably draw people that otherwise may not have come. As well, lap traffic could make the race more exciting as the competitors closer together. Add to this the fact the winner is harder to predict, sounds like a win-win situation almost?

[Crash Test]

Originally posted by kmchow
I guess Ingall is concerned about safety.

No, he is being a ******.

Originally posted by kmchow
But look at the many pros--you get a very full grid of cars with nice sponsors that probably draw people that otherwise may not have come. As well, lap traffic could make the race more exciting as the competitors closer together. Add to this the fact the winner is harder to predict, sounds like a win-win situation almost?[/B]

Hehehe, Neal/Muller/Plato caused enough excitment thank you

[mtpanorama]

Morky was a classified finisher for the first time ever.
Well done to him
Yesterday after Ingall went off in the shoot out a group of privateers led by th above mentioned stood at the end of pit lane & gave ingall the biggest cheer for going off at the chase.
The moment was priceless.


The biggest backmarker problem today was the "experienced" pommy import drivers.

[marcus]

considering the conditions I think everybody did a pretty good job...but I like Crash tests idea of rookie sessions..instructions from someone like Brocky or dick will always do a driver good and yes the drivers would listen to those guys.

and I think splitting the qualifing up into more groups would help in practise at least that way drivers have the chance of getting more flying laps in.

[Valve Bounce]

You could have a separate race on Saturday, say a 200 km race, for the less experienced. Have a special qualifying session on Thursday for these less experienced and foreign drivers. This would mean that anyone who has never turned a lap at Mt Panorama under a certain specified time, by Friday evening, (previous years' times will count), will be relegated to the 200 km race. This should provide the opportunity for the less experienced at Mt. Panorama to gain experience. The hot shot foreigners will still have the opportunity to try to qualify for the main race on both Thursday and Friday if they have never turned a wheel at Mt Panorama. Let's face it - Mt Panorama can be quite a dangerous place up at the top, and any one of the silly moves by backmarkers this year could have resulted in a serious accident. These distances and dates are only suggestions. What do you guys think? I am glad my friend AMoffat got back home safely!! Did you enjoy Bathurst this year? How was the drive home??

[Crash Test]

Next year they will be having a race on Saturday for the Konica Series competitors who don't make the main show.

But the people from Planet Mork did a fine job! 95% of the pace cars were caused by people at the front of the field. Nobody had any problems getting by them, the Radisich thing when he hit the Howison/Field car was totally Radisich's fault ffor cutting it too fine.

[Airhead]

Dear VB

Yes I liked the run across the top in the wet before the race. The quickest laps always look slow!

I didn't I look good on the TV while you all ate your wheat bix!

Very enjoyable, I was in raptures, and the race hadn't even started. I think the race went telecast went down hill after that, what being upstaged by that twerp Peter Brock. I thought I'd finally got rid him when he met the mad dokter. What a performer!

[Crash Test]

Ingall has been fined $10,000 for his "Planet Mork" remarks! Blow that out yer arse

[elephino]

As I'm too tired to read all of that, sorry. I'll comment on flag points. There are some in pointless (sorry again) positions. One I can think of straight away is point 22.0 which is the right hander out of the chase. I don't see any reason for it to be there, the drivers cannot see it unless they have spun off and it is not needed for points 21.0 and 22.4 to see what is happening as they can see eachother.

[marcus]

Im not sure about a race on saturday..while it may be a good idea wouldnt guys like "Planet Mork" (totally love that name by the way ) prefer to run in the big race..I mean thats what they really came for..but on the other hand you might get the privateers wanting to race in the saturday race because they have more of a chance of winning or at least running at the front and being on TV more therefore keeping their sponsors happy...so you might get some guys sandbagging to gain a spot in the short race and we dont want that...then we might get the problem of only having 25 cars lining up for each race..and i for one dont want that..i and bet the privateer race would be more exciting anyway..but I would much rather see a field of 50 or so in the one race..

this debate could go on for ages and there still could be no outcome..but so far everyone has been coming up with some good points but we all must agree there is no easy solution..we dont want a Champcar/IRL situation on our hands and i believe its the great aussie dream to take a car to bathurst..


as for Ingall being fined 10 grand..I love it thats twice this year now..are we gonna start a support Russell ingall fund ???

or should i run a poll next week stating "who is russ gonna **** of next ???"

*Imrie..(maybe to finish him off)
*Larry (For breaking the car in the warm up)
*F1 teams for not giving him a chance to be world champ
*Barry Sheens (for running off with his wife )

[Crash Test]

Heheh

Put the problem is that the privateers base their sponorship on the fact that they will be racing in the 1000. Basically what is going to happen is that they are going to get peaved, pack up and quit the sport. LET 55 CARS START THE 2001 1000!!!

[Valve Bounce]

OK. What they could do is to let the first ten cars on the Saturday advance to Sunday's race also. They can work on their cars on Saturday night. What we all want to see is a reduction in the speed differential between the faster and slower cars. It's not going to detract that much from the spectacle if only 45 cars started instead of 55.

[DAVID PATERSON]

A lot of good ideas have been put forward here, but I honestly don't know what the answer is, maybe we will still be debating this one in 10 years.

One point however, it's a vague and inaccurate generalisation to suggest that once a year drivers are the problem. Once a year drivers have won the race in '87 & '93.

My biggest objection to Ingall's outburst, apart from the insults and name calling, is the suggestion that all slower cars are poorly driven by morons etc. Some of the guys at the back of the field are actually very experienced, capable and intelligent drivers. Because those involved in V8 Supercars only follow V8 Supercars and Formula Ford, they wouldn't know how well some of these guys go in Club Cars, Historic Touring Cars or Sports Sedans.

[hoffy]

I thought there was a 107% rule? This should account for the really slow drivers.

[marcus]

Valve bounce..your point about letting the top 10 on saturday go through is interesting..but then they would be racing 1200km for the weekend ..thus increasing their budget even more and running the risk of destroying the car on saturday packing up and going home..and it may not be a poor car that this happens to..possibly one of the top privateers could have any multitude of problems.


David your point about the tail end drivers is also a good one..these guys (most of them anyway) have been racing something for years are are pretty experienced but just not in V8 supercar..I guess more miles in a V8 is what they need but to get that you have to have a pretty good budget to start with and someone who is willing to give you their car.

I think there is a cut off point for qualifying times but im not sure if it is 107%..but maybe that rule could be looked at in more detail..then you have the problem of 1 driver beating the time but the second drive say missing it by 2 seconds or so..what happens then ???

I remember last year when Nathan Pretty ran his own car with a New Zealand bloke (name escapes me now) his sister Nicole was going to drive as well but didnt make the grade so they went back to a 2 driver team for the race..thats all fine and dandy for a 3 driver team but what happens when it is only a 2 driver team anyway..anybody know the answer to this one ????

[Crash Test]

Marcus: The third driver was Andrew Fawcett.

WRT 107% rule, it is in place, but there is a clause in there to say that the clerk of course may waive it if he feels fit. It happens all of the time in F1...

Besides, if they enforeced it on the weekend only 17 cars would have been allowed to start because of the rain..

Also I remember back to the ST Bathurst 98 when i spent a great deal of time with WW, and they had all manner of problems through the week, and up to qualifying (many of the other cars also had not set times with 107% before qualifying either). The CoC posted a list of the cars, and the ruling was set that at least one driver had to get within 107%, and the others simply had to demonstrate that they weren't hazzards.

Also remember back to 94, they let a VL Commodore in the race although it did not qualify, and it nearly took out Lowndes...he didn't but he slowed him enough to let Bowe back past and to the race win..

[Buckshot]

The VL that got in Lowndes way - was that Neil Schembri ?

[Crash Test]

Greg Fahey was driving the VL at the time of the Lowndes incident..

[Buckshot]

But it was Schembris car ? Sorry not hassling just curious because even though back then I was just a casual viewer I have alwys thought it was the Schembri car ?