My way to find the best driver!

[TeddyG]

I was just thinking the other day that the only way to settle the ongoing dispute of who is the fastest driver in F1 is to give them each identical equipment right, well duh? Has this ever been done before? I haven't been following F1 for very long so I'm not sure, but this is what I had in mind;

The FIA should organise an event in the off season in which each driver would be given an opportunity to drive the same car. The driver could be given 5 laps or so to set his fastest time and then the next driver would have his turn in the car and so on. I realise that Formula 1 cars are not designed to be stopping and starting in this fashion due to clutch wear ect. but I was thinking that perhaps this car could be a collaboration of all the teams to build a more reliable yet still very quick car capable of giving each driver equal opportunity in this case. Indeed this could prove to be too costly and teams would probably protest because they already say they have too little time in the offseason for testing.

This said, how about just using a high powered roadcar such as a Porsche 911 Turbo (instead of a Ferrari or BMW to keep it neutral) modifed of course for racing. It could be called the "Porsche F1 Challenge" or something like that. Of course some technical details would have to be worked out, such as fresh tires for each driver and same fuel loads ect. to make it even, but I think this is not a bad idea and could work if given an opportunity.

It certainly would give people whose favorite drivers are in some of the poorer teams in F1 something to root for. Giving their favorites the chance to show their stuff and prove they are really among the elite drivers but just in a poor race car during the season.

Some people might say that these drivers aren't prepared to race road cars and drivers have different preferences in cars ect. but I think that a REAL race car driver should be able to get into anything (no matter if it's an F1 car or a bulldozer) and take it to the max!!

It could be an annual event with a trophy presented to the winner. This could be aimed more as a sort of fun day for F1 rather than a serious racing event, sort of like the equvalent to an all-star game in baseball or hockey (maybe even switching to different tracks each year). Sadly this is all just a fantasy but I know I would pay good money to see something like this, would you?

Tell me what you think, and why something like this could or couldn't work.

[Raoul Duke]

Well they have something similar to that in the US called the Iroc Championship. Which is where they take drivers from severall series(Nascar,Cart, IRL etc) and put them all in identically prepared cars so no driver will have a mechanical advantage over the other.

[TeddyG]

Yeah I guess, I was thinking about something like that but exclusive to F1. Since I feel that the best of the best drivers are in F1 this would be an opportunity for them to have a little glory if they hadn't had any in the season. Also for their fans to have something to look forward to if there season isn't so great.
Something for all the people who say "Man! If (enter your favorite driver) was in a car just as good he would kick (enter driver in the lead)'s butt."

[Raoul Duke]

Well I would love to see TGF get his butt kicked by the midfield drivers(whishfull thinking).

[TimD]

The very first IROC series was (I think) in 1973, and used Porsche 911 RS Carreras. There were rather more F1 drivers in it in those days...

More recently, does anyone else remember the BMW M1 Procar series from 1979 and 1980? This was an 8 or 9 race championship run between practice and raceday at the European GPs, and used identical 3.5 litre BMW sports cars. Some were prepared by BMW M-Sport, some by privateer teams, and they had F1 drivers of the calibre of Lauda, Piquet, Reutemann, Alan Jones competing against sports car drivers such as Ralf Kelleners and Reinhold Jost.

I think it was politics that killed it. I saw one of these races, at a Donington meeting in 1979. They were one heck of a sight.

[TeddyG]

Raoul Duke, my thoughts exactly

To TimD;
Orginally I was just thinking about which driver could set the fastest lap. Avoiding all sorts of safty issues and how much money would have to be invested for the event, and hope fully a lot of politics.
But perhaps it could be like an additional race weekend with qualifing and everything, which would be really cool! I think that's asking a bit much from something that is just a fantasy anyways. Certainly I wasn't talking about another series just a one time yearly event for driver's to prove there worth in an equal car.

[SL]

THe BMW races were quite good. BMW supplied the cars a various teams looked after them. What probably killed it off was the rebuild costs after each stock car race and the time spent extracting bent BMW's from the armco.

Plus of course the fastest F1 drivers were not always the fastest M1 drivers. This led to more and more 'guest' drivers as the F1 boys were not so keen on getting beaten by a F3 hotshot

Simon

[KC]

It would take a marque that is not currently in F1 to pull it off. I cannot imagine BMW allowing RS or JPM driving a Mercedes or Ferrari allowing MS and RB driving a BMW.

I'd love to see them all drive something like one of Clelands old Vauxhall Vectra BTCC machines. If it had to be an open wheeler, then maybe a formula Palmer Audi or maybe an Indy Lights car. None of them are very familiar with them and it would make for even field.

[TeddyG]

To SL;
Yes that's why I was thinking of an exclusively F1 race to see who really is the most talented in F1.

To KC;
Yeah I agree that's why I picked Porsche as the car I thought they should run.

The reason I thought the winner should be the driver who posts the fastest lap and not actually having a race is because each driver would drive the exact same car, in a race with many different cars they cannot all be exactly the same, some will be slightly better. I'm looking for who can go fastest in the same machine.

[SL]

TVR springs to mind..........

Mega power / weight. rear wheel drive.

Now who has enough petty cash to buy 30 odd race prepared TVR's ???? Some chap in the rich list...Ernie someone,or is it Bernie.

Simon

[TeddyG]

haha....I was thinking that the manufacturer would provide the cars...think of the promo they would be getting. They wouldn't have to run adverts at all!!

[TeddyG]

ohhh and by the way TVR's would be sweet!!!!

[djb]

As per the beemer M1 series, I remember seeing a BMW promo film that mentioned the series and as SL said, the footage showed quite a number of armco-pranging incidents that must have been quite expensive to sort out on a regular basis.

[TeddyG]

Yes djb that's why I figured this should be a "once a year" event probably taking place not long after the conclusion of the F1 season.

[512_BB]

I'm thinking of not putting them in cars but rather carts. Most of the F1 drivers seem to be coming form a carting background anyway. The only problem I see is a some safety concerns. Putting 20 or so world class drivers in carts and turning them lose might end a career or two.

[Orange]

512 BB I think you have hit the nail on the head... If everyone knew for sure exactly how talented all the F1 drivers were, a lot would be out of a job. I think it would be bad for system to know who was worth what... (or am i full of it??)

[Raoul Duke]

I agree with Orange, the politics behing F1 would never allow for such a thing to happen.

[TeddyG]

Perhaps we should return to my original idea then. Which was having one car (say a modifed Porsche 911 turbo) and letting each of the driver's having a go in it and seeing who could turn the fastest lap. I would think of it as more of a fun kind of day for F1 for the drivers to get together and have a bit of a laugh, maybe having the proceeds go to charity. I don't think it would make or break any driver's career's because their results in the season would still do that. This would just offer some bragging rights for the driver and that driver's fans.

[Dino IV]

Sorry, Teddy, your idea won't work.

Why not?

Because the top drivers won't come.
The lower team drivers will come for sure, because they want to prove they're a match or better than any of the drivers at the wealthy teams.
The topdrivers can only lose. They can't win morally. If they'll be up front, everyone will say, look, told you so, he's the best. But in equal cars it's not that easy to end up front, so the chance is huge they'll get beaten by others who normally are no threat to them in F1. That scares their ego's out. So they won't enter such a competition.

The Bercy Stadium Kart Explosion was set up along the same idea. It didn't work. Some of the F1 stars considered it good fun and came along. But the top aces like TGF would only enter the ring if he could bring his own equipment and engineer, instead of the karts Bercy provided. And thus ofcourse when he's there he'll win. If he doesn't have an equipment advantage up front, he doesn't want to put his reputation on the line and stays at home.

Mercedes pulled it off once with its celebrity race at the opening of the new Nurburgring (the one we know today) at the 1984 GP. Most of the F1 stars entered and got to drive almost standard and certainly equal 190 E 2.3 16V's. Not surprisingly the best one won in front of all the established names.

His name?

Ayrton Senna da Silva.

[TeddyG]

Yeah I guess your right Dino... I figured that would probably be the main reason why something like this wouldn't work because the top drivers are too damn scared to put their reputation on the line.
But I figured it would be fun to watch and if the driver's could take a relaxed attitude to it (which I guess is impossible) it could be fun for them too.
Oh well it was just a dream!

[Dino IV]

Well it's not impossible. It can be done, but the current atmosphere in F1 is totally wasted because of the boasting spoiled ego's. They're even nig-nagging about friday's practice sessions now. Nobody has any credit for anyone and the last time a pleasant word or sincere compliment has been spoken must have been somewhere in the late seventies.

But in a series where there's little less tension, there's some motivation for events like this. Wasn't there suposed to be a Superstar GP in 1999? Held in Honolulu, CART-cars and drivers from CART, F1 and IRL? Cancelled ofcourse.

But there's a Race of Champions again! For the past 3 (4?) years now. Not F1 this time, but for Rally drivers. Held at a purpose build track in Las Palmas. It features 1 lap shoot-outs between two drivers in two different rally cars. The track is actually two tracks next to eachother. So the drivers start from the same startline and drive some 30 metres apart on their own track. They're doing their utmost effort to equal the avarage speeds on those tracks, so the drivers get over the finishline very close together. To level any differences between the tracks, the drivers switch tracks and run a second lap. Then they get in another car and do the same again and after that the average difference counts. So say, Makkinen on track 1 goes head to head with Sainz on track 2, both in a Subaru Impreza. Second shoot-out, same cars, but Sainz on track 1 and Makkinen on track 2. Third shoot-out the same thing only with a different car, say a Peugeot 206.

It's really really cool and the drivers seem to enjoy it a lot.

But the climate in F1 is wrong for events like that.
Guess we'll have to wait 'till someone breaks the ice, by simply competing in such an event. If Montoya, Raikkonen and Alonso keep the right attitude they could be the spark the thick atmosphere needs. Give it a year or two, until Schu\Hak\DC etc have retired and maybe then we'll see a change. Shoot-out together with CART sounds cool. A Indy-like race with equal Indy Lights and a race at Road America the next weekend with equal F3000's or so.

[KA]

The other big problem is contracts- F1 team owners are now highly reluctant to let their drivers compete in anything else- although it had been an increasing trend for some time, the rot finally set in in this respect in 1985 when 2 F1 drivers were killed (Manfred Winkelhock & Stefan Bellof) and another injured (Jonathan Palmer) in a period of about 2-3 months, all racing sportscars. Most of the drivers who still raced outside F1 (the likes of Martin Brundle) were prevented from doing so by their teams- I don't think any have regularly done so since the late 80's- eg- Berger raced touring cars for BMW until he joined Ferrari in '87

[Orange]

This is one of the saddest developments in modern motorsport... The lack of racers who drive in multiple disciplines. How many drivers drive open wheelers as well as sportscars, touring cars, stock cars, and rallies? It is a shame that drivers are held in the same leagues, because they are forbidden to race in other areas. I read about the old days, in the 50s and 60s when drivers would race sportscars one weekend, and a Grand Prix the next. ad, that those days are gone for good.

[Raoul Duke]

TeddyG, your original idea would be a little complicated, because not all the drivers are the same size, so it would be dificult to fit them all in the same cockpit.

[TeddyG]

True Raoul if they used the modified F1 car I was talking about, but if they just used Porsche's they could adjust the seat!!

Yeah I realise that my idea has got a lot of holes in it as it has been shown in most of the responses I have been reading.
To KA; yeah I thought safety would be a concern which is why I suggested that it wouldn't be an actual race but just drivers using the same car trying to set the fastest lap. So no chances for car collisions but still some risk.

But it looks like politics and stubborn drivers are the main reasons why this type of event would never happen, well at the present anyways. Like Dino said maybe some of the newer drivers would be more willing to do something like this in the future.