North American Sportscar Media Thread

[MaskedRacer]

Did not see this in existence, thought it would make a good thread discussion on its own.

[MaskedRacer]

https://racer.com/2018/12/28/the-wee...s-cars-dec-28/

Listen to around the 32nd minute of the podcast. Wow they rip Sportscar365 (without naming) up big time! Its really bitter almost. I find it surprising. I listen to the Marshal/Graham show every week and love their content. Got to disagree big time there. I love Sportscar365, things are much better for them being around. Must be a generational thing too. As the S365 folks are the millennial generation, where the former is more of a Gen X type. I love both. There is room for both. Lay off them Marshall and Graham.

[skycafe]

Wow. I am dirt old, and remember times when information of any kind about sportscar racing was virtually non-existent (...and I grew up 60 miles from Daytona Speedway, and 90 miles from Sebring...), so I now often feel like a kid in a candy store now. I will be honest and say I don't read a lot on [I]that site

[Akrapovic]

To be honest, this thread is likely to upset some people because we know that a good chunk of the people involved in these sites read this forum.

2018 kinda killed my interest in motorsport journalism (the reading/listening of it I mean) because there's too much infighting. MP and JH had a few tense arguments on MWM, and whilst it may have been more good-natured and less tense to them, it did come across quite aggressive. I listen to the podcasts to relax in the car, and frankly, MWM became...less relaxing. I've now stopped listening to it for the first time in god knows how many years. I'm sure many still enjoy it, but I stopped finding it enjoyable.

And now, I feel like everybody (and I do include all sides of it when I say everybody) is feeling quite self-important and wanting to tell me their opinion on things rather than just report news. People taking sides and taking the opportunity to take digs at the opposition, and the endless points scoring is just...tiring. I want to enjoy motorsport, and whilst the motor racing itself is still good, the way it's being reported I don't enjoy anymore. I now find myself just tuning in for races, and I didn't see that coming. Even my own project has not been given the attention it deserves, partly due to my circumstances changing, but also due to my love of the sport being reigned in a little.

S365 certainly has a lot of problems. The clickbait is very frustrating. But I also think it's unfair how John and his team are treated - as if everywhere else is a sea of perfection. It seems accepted that we are to ridicule S365 over clickbait and insane articles over confirmed Ferrari LMP1 projects, but we are to not mention the downsides of other sites. That is very unfair.

Whilst the news on motorsport is easier to find than it ever has been, and we're all thankful for that, the general 'feeling' when reading it is quite a negative one - even in positive articles.

[Adam43]

The quantity is there, but the quality is sadly lacking in all areas of he coverage of our sport as you say.

Articles are poorly written in terms of language and the skill of writing. They seem poorly researched too and, as you say, seem to be more interested in getting across their opinion rather than reporting and allowing the reader to form their own. Opinion pieces are fine if approproste, well articulated and from a sound basis. When do you see that?

This seems to have fully grasped hold of other media now. Especially the podcasts.

I too am on a downer about it. Although I’m not so sure it’s that new a phenomena.

[Maelochs]

It is the disease which has afflicted all media nowadays—the quick cash-out, polarize the audience, start controversy, model.

SC-365 also uses the old and outmoded “scoop” paradigm.

Clickbait is the things, now—monetizing the news to a level which satisfies corporate owners demands a lot of hits to satisfy sponsors. And there has to be more ”news’ on your site than on the competitors’—else people might go to their sites. Hence the rambling podcasts filled with almost random opinions.

Nobody takes the time to do deep research or to wait for a story to develop—the money is in volume and speed.

Also, “neutral” reporting gets less engagement. Don’t blame the media—they get paid when you posts reactions. If we all made pithy comments on pithy stories, that would be what we saw more often. Instead, we post snarky comments on snarky stories.

Part of the answer, as Akropovic has found, is simply to avoid most of the mess.

Another technique is critical reading. We can notice when we are being fed crap, especially the third or fourth time from the same source in the same fashion. Scan the headlines, know in advance what to expect, pick the meaty bits and spit out the filler.

One thing: Akropovic defends SC-365, but I am not sure that is the right move.

A story which claims facts not in existence is dishonest. And if we accept dishonest journalism, we force the competition to go the dame route to stay afloat.

The idea is not to defend the miscreants for their crimes by saying others do it—the idea is to call out Everyone who does it—or just stop reading those sorts of stories.

John Dagys is a driven, obsessed, extremely hard-working man who has made the most of his skills, and made the most of the current media environment. He has always been a little too interested in “scoops”—which are sort of meaningless in the current time, as any article will be echoed on every other site within minutes (as a person who has written far too many “Website X reports that … “ articles, I see it many times every day.) In an effort to get scoops, and to get readers in general, he sensationalizes, he uses “clickbait” headlines (we don’t need to take the bait) and he pretends to know more than he does.

He also does (or now, organizes) a huge amount of reporting on many facets of sports car racing.

Anyone recall the old Mariantic? The days when there were a few English-language websites, often translated, often badly, from French or German sites, and next to no reporting on the North American scene at all?

If we want to the modern sports-car media to improve, we need to stop hitting the clickbait, stop commenting—at all, positive or negative—on unfounded articles, and when we do comment, thoughtfully and rationally explain what we think is wrong with the writing.

Turn off the podcasts—and send a long a note saying to wanrt more information and less infighting.

On the whole, though … When I look at the SC365 website and see all those stories covring all those aspects of the sport—sure, many are hastily written and maybe spotilly researched—but would we rather have next to no news at all?

[Akrapovic]

I maybe worded things poorly. I’m not really defending S365 as such, but I do question why it’s ok to rip apart everything John Dagys does, whilst ignoring the significant downsides to other sites. I do agree that the content of S365 is often bordering on the unacceptable side of clickbait, but we all seem to comfortable talking about that but not comfortable talking about the issues on RLM/MWM or DSC. That’s the bit I find unfair on John.

All the sites have upsides and downsides, but we only seem to talk about the downsides of S365.

Podcast wise, I find none of it enjoyable anymore. Too many arguments and soap boxes. I don’t mind a good rant but there are limits. The insider points scoring is boring. And as we are constantly reminded by one of the “sides”, this is a free service and we are free to not use it. Which is completely true. But if nobody uses it then they won’t be able to continue the business. So you’d think the feedback (If put nicely of course), would be welcomed, but more often than not it is met with rather rude replies.

The world of motorsport podcasts has left me not enjoying the sport as much as I used to.

[Maelochs]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I’m not really defending S365 as such, but I do question why it’s ok to rip apart everything John Dagys does, whilst ignoring the significant downsides to other sites.

Gotcha.

I mainly steer clear of everything except hard news---driver lineups and such---and extrapolate from entry lists, sessions results, and what is posted here.

I know most of what is being spewed out by the media is deadline-driven, not information-services-driven.

My waning interest in motorsports is actually more due to the factual reporting, about the games, the politics, and the drive to make racing more entertainment and less sport.

But ... as with all things ... we have options. i enjoy racing for what it is, as much as I can, and don't stress over the fact that a lot of it is sort of "fixed."

I suspect all sport has been, all along, at anything about the amateur level (not considering the Olympics to be amateur.) Nowadays we see the grime and filth, but i am pretty sure that while things might be worse nowadays ... people were always willing to bend the rules to win.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The quantity is there, but the quality is sadly lacking in all areas of he coverage of our sport as you say.

There's a lot of articles maybe, but I imagine there is roughly 1 to 3 season long press box fixtures for most series so the actual breadth of reporting is pretty small. You don't get many perspectives and the ones that you do are too closely tied to what they're covering to avoid sounding like the series' own press department most of the time.

The IMSA attacks on the FIA made entirely through media mouthpieces so that nobody has to attach their name to the crap flinging are some of the most tiresome things to read in motorsport journalism this side of F1 press nationalism, baseless esports evangelism, and excuses for how NASCAR is totally not struggling.

[MaskedRacer]

Give me examples of sportscar365 so called click bait n 2018 please. They have been solid this year. Also their podcast it’s far far less opinionated than Graham and Marshall’s show. I did not like how they throw incheap shot politics in either such as their comments praising immigration.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

Give me examples of sportscar365 so called click bait n 2018 please.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/f...ng-into-focus/

One of several Ford DPi articles where the headline does not match the content. There have been instances of drivers actually calling them out for it too. Here’s a recent one from Katherine Legge

https://twitter.com/katherinelegge/s...776538112?s=20

[Juntos]

That young guy Dagys does his best. Provides daily content, his web still a reference in sportscar world and he's bit less biased than old 'Marshal'.

[Akrapovic]

His (and his teams) grammar, spelling, proofreading and editing is generally excellent as well.

[MaskedRacer]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

His (and his teams) grammar, spelling, proofreading and editing is generally excellent as well.

The sportscar365 podcast that just came out yesterday is very good. Very objective straight reporting. The closest thing to an opinion they gave was a comment that said that a 47 car grid for the Daytona 24 was the perfect size because it improves the chances of super lengthy green flag periods for which I agree with them 100%

[TerribleWone]

I am glad I am not the only one tied of the "holier than thou" mindset MP and GG seem to have when berating individuals in the sport. They seem to believe they are some beacon in professionalism yet they constantly air out dirty laundry, unnecessary media room politics/rumors/drama and are guilty of many of of the same claims they make of others. I find it ironic that they make a resolution not to mention their competitors site, when all along they themselves constantly use semi related topics as a springboard to beat up on it. I recall several months ago MP went on a similar tirade against a fantastic professional photographer that was utterly uncalled for and did zero to aid in the original listener's question on how to improve in photography. While there is zero love lost between several individuals in the media room, I don't see any other reporters/photographers dedicating 5-15 minutes in a podcast airing it out publicly.

[TF110]

I don't have a preference. I just want to view the information and catch some behind the scenes type scoops. If it comes from one site or another, it doesn't matter to me. But certain sites need to stay away from click-bait type headlines. That seems unlikely because they want to generate clicks. Autosport and motorsport.com do the same thing and those are two of the biggest.

[rich07]

I enjoy both sites for different reasons so no favourites here. Double Stint is great for a weekly roundup of what’s going on and Pruett/Goodwin’s Week In Sportscars is a must listen for what questions people come up with. It’s interesting to see how alliances have changed in opposite ways since when I got into sportscars years ago. Things have changed and it appears some people involved are mighty unhappy about something. Here’s another person that doesn’t enjoy the podcasts being used as a platform to rip into someone. If you want to do it in private by all means go for it and that is where it should stay. And I don’t care who’s saying it. That’s irrelevant. It’s not classy at all.

One day I’ll hear the John Dagys ep of Dinner with Racers...apparently it’s pretty good.

[Hedley Verity]

I'm a fan of TWISC (and midweek motorsport), but the weekly pronouncement of their moral superiority is getting a bit grating, and risks sounding smug, hopefully the comment in last weeks show to lay off it a bit is followed up.

[Gingers4Justice]

There is one major news outlet that regularly employs interesting grammatical structures. And it ain't SC365.

I'm really glad that I'm not alone in finding it all a bit too partisan. It's led to me feeling a little apathetic and precisely the attitude that has driven me away from pursuing a career in it. Why can't people just be pleasant? It's just cars going round in circles! (Or, rather, the reporting of cars going round in circles.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

There is one major news outlet that regularly employs interesting grammatical structures. And it ain't SC365.

I'm really glad that I'm not alone in finding it all a bit too partisan. It's led to me feeling a little apathetic and precisely the attitude that has driven me away from pursuing a career in it. Why can't people just be pleasant? It's just cars going round in circles! (Or, rather, the reporting of cars going round in circles.

Seems most news today is like that. Affects even the sports we watch, sadly.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by TF110

Seems most news today is like that. Affects even the sports we watch, sadly.

You’re not wrong; however I perceive that this culture has accelerated in the last year or so and others say similar.

We’re not talking about a large group of people here - it’s dozens, not hundreds. Things can soon go back the other way.

[Akrapovic]

I feel like there's a line that's been crossed. We're all aware they have opinions, and in previous years I've really enjoyed listening to those opinions. I think sometimes an opinion really adds to the discussion because it's usually followed by some sound reasoning that more often than not can change my own opinion on a situation. But recently it's been more about aggressively asserting these opinions at every opportunity. Often I agree with the opinion being said, but I feel the way it's communicated is over-aggressive and I find it exhausting. I do not feel relaxed after listening to these podcasts anymore.

It's easy to assume that what I just said is aimed purely at JH, but it isn't - it applies almost industry-wide. Martin Haven has become very like that too recently. Martin has always been a brilliant character and tended to fall on the ranty side. But now it feels like he's becoming a parody of himself, where rants and arguments are the norm. There were a couple of uncomfortable points in the WEC commentary where he'd argue with the subject experts. It's like they're playing up the funny characters they've been given. It's strange.

On a positive side, there was the new pit lane reporter, Diana Binks (IIRC) on IMSA Radio last year - she was a breath of fresh air. Professional and well spoken. Excellent job in the pit lane. And although Nick Daman comes close to over the ranty line in MWM, his pit lane reporting has also stepped up a notch recently. He's always been good and I've never once thought he could improve, but he's done it anyway. He can be ranty, but it's usually less of an argument. Really enjoy Nicks stuff.

[J Jay]

I've been hesitant to wade in on this, but I don't think I can ignore it much longer. I'm trying to not fall into the trap of "Back in my day..." but things that might have been left unsaid before now aren't. Opinions, backsides, etc.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I feel like there's a line that's been crossed. We're all aware they have opinions, and in previous years I've really enjoyed listening to those opinions. I think sometimes an opinion really adds to the discussion because it's usually followed by some sound reasoning that more often than not can change my own opinion on a situation.

And this is why Sam Collins has been such a big miss recently. At least I hope the refuse collection in his constituency is being sorted now!

It's like they're playing up the funny characters they've been given.

Flandersation in action, right here. It also comes with the worrying implication that this made-for-retweets style of debate is necessary, because either they or someone above them believes what is happening on track is not good enough. And I completely agree that it is industry-wide; it's become a thing of late to simply shout louder (or the sportscar equivalent - talk down to and interrupt) when you believe your opinion takes precedence.

[Coach Ep]

Not sure if this is the right topic for this but nevertheless: https://racer.com/2019/01/04/till-howe-join-imsa-radio/

It was a pleasure to hear Till and Shaw doing the commentary on the IMSA Prototype (P3) race yesterday (online). Glad they stay involved.

[seanyb505]

I really didn't enjoy Brian in the booth, but that's just my subjective preference. I heard my own voice on a video once (awful) and now it's difficult to not hear the same monotone blegh from other American commentators.

I think that like Shea Adam, pit lane reports will suit them.