Le Mans Series 2009

[JAG]

With one race to go, it's time to speculate on 2009.

Audi - reports development of a new P1 is well underway, open or closed?

Peugeot -will they maintain their edge, any customer cars on the horizon?

Aston Martin - factory car? Two Lola Aston Martin's?

Oreca - any new developments, they appear to be dropping behind Lola.

Pescarolo - surely they need a new car, decent race pace, but way off the ultimate pace, which IMO is as much to do with the chassis as the engine.

Zytek - will the hybrid make an appearance?

Dome - two cars from Team Goh?

LAA - two GM engined P1's?

Creation - where now for them after another hit and miss season?

Will GT1 engines become the new vogue, will AER challenge Judd, seeing as their P2 engines are so highly rated.

Will GT1 even exist?

Any BMW's in GT2?

Any leftover Acura P2's crossing the Atlantic?

More or less races, location, race length?

[The Badger]

Pesca is talking about a 7L LMP1 motor with Red Bull sponsorship .

Oreca are planning a new car .

[HORNDAWG]

Aston powered P-2. (?)
Zulltec ?
Geoscan ?


L.P.

[JAG]

Where's the Pescarolo news from?

Isn't Oreca's new car for 2010, maybe they should fast track it.

Can P&M/Katech (?) supply GT1 engines regardless of factory support, as a privateer business?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Can P&M/Katech (?) supply GT1 engines regardless of factory support, as a privateer business?

No. Not without GM's permission.

L.P.

[Taxi645]

LMS 2009 prototype rules




Here's my take on what roughly should be the LMS prototype rules for 2009:

1. LMP1

1.1 Diesel

1.1.1 For existing engine/chassis combinations and production based engines:
930kg, 2008 -7% air restrictor.

1.1.2 Everything else:
900kg, 2008 -10% air restrictor.

1.2 Petrol

1.2.1 For production based engines:
900kg, 2008 -2% air restrictor

1.2.2 Everything else:
870kg, 2008 -5% air restrictor


2. LMP2

2.1 Diesel

2.1.1 For production based engines:
875kg, 2008 air restrictor.

2.1.2 Everything else:
850kg, 2008 -3% air restrictor.

1.2 Petrol

2.2.1 For production based engines:
850kg, 2008 air restrictor

2.2.2 Everything else:
825kg, 2008 -3% air restrictor


Goals for the rule adaptions:
1 Make LMP1 petrol more competitive compared to LMP1 diesels and LMP2
2 Get LMP1 cars back above or near the Le Mans 3.30min lap.
3 Differentiate rules for different engine concepts LMP1 vs. LMP2, Petrol vs. diesel and race vs. production in order to stimulate chassis compatibility with different engine concepts which will reduce costs and facilitate more production engines/manufacturers to enter.
4 1.1.1 Keeps Audi and Peugeot on board by allowing them to stay competitive with their powerful but heavy V12's.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No. Not without GM's permission.

L.P.

Couldn't any builder produce a Cheverolet V8 to GT1 specs, who builds the LG GT2 V8 for example?

Saleen use Ford V8's without any overt Ford backing.

Obviously, LAA would like to retain GM backing, but a competitive car in a viable class is priority number on.

[The Badger]

[QUOTE=JAG]Where's the Pescarolo news from?QUOTE]

It was mentioned in the Nurburgring LMS race thread .

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by JAG

Couldn't any builder produce a Cheverolet V8 to GT1 specs, who builds the LG GT2 V8 for example?

Saleen use Ford V8's without any overt Ford backing.

Obviously, LAA would like to retain GM backing, but a competitive car in a viable class is priority number on.

I can't imagine it's that simple. There must be reams of technical information that would be proprietary to GM and their "contractors" that would not be available to some other builder. It's not that someone couldn't eventually build an engine, but it would probably take years and lots of investment dollars that a GM-blessed contractor wouldn't have to take or spend.

DK

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Couldn't any builder produce a Cheverolet V8 to GT1 specs, who builds the LG GT2 V8 for example?

Saleen use Ford V8's without any overt Ford backing.

Obviously, LAA would like to retain GM backing, but a competitive car in a viable class is priority number on.

First off, the question was; "Can P&M/Katech (?) supply GT1 engines regardless of factory support, as a privateer business?"
Both of these are under contractual obligation to GM. They (Katech) produce the product(s) that are in question, for GM.

As to whether or not anyone can produce the engine(s) in question, I may be wrong, but, the rule is for homologated engines. A homologated engine, is specific to the engine that is homologated with the car, is it not? With that being the case then no one but GM can authorize the use of the engine. Which seems to be the case with the AM lump also.


L.P.

[dj choc ice]

another bit of speculation i feel is what the situation with the merkstein RS spyder will be next year as the team have already achieved their target and if they leave who will fill their place, another LMP2 team perhaps?

plus what about RML, they are getting engine developments from MG so it might go further than that for all we know

[Dead-Eye]

A new chassis wouldn't be a bad idea for RML...maybe another coupe?
As for VM, didn't we have someone from Verschuur here a while ago saying that they might come back as Equipe Verschuur as opposed to "Van Merksteijn Motorsport by Equipe Verschuur"

edit: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....6&postcount=13

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

another bit of speculation i feel is what the situation with the merkstein RS spyder will be next year as the team have already achieved their target and if they leave who will fill their place, another LMP2 team perhaps?

It was already mentioned a few weeks ago by a member of the team , that there is a possibility of Verschuer purchasing the car from Van Merksteijn and running it in the LMS in 2009 , a possibility was talked about . Hope it works out for them cuz they are doing a cracking job .

[dj choc ice]

true for RML, but i would think that the performance of the BK lola mazda coupe in the states could potentially hold a bearing on wether RML maybe got a lola coupe as we have only seen so far how the lola coupe P2 fares with a N/A engine and not a turbo engine.

also with RML i was referring to the fact that with the support from MG the RML Lola may receive more than just engine updates, possibly aero, suspension and more.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

First off, the question was; "Can P&M/Katech (?) supply GT1 engines regardless of factory support, as a privateer business?"
Both of these are under contractual obligation to GM. They (Katech) produce the product(s) that are in question, for GM.

As to whether or not anyone can produce the engine(s) in question, I may be wrong, but, the rule is for homologated engines. A homologated engine, is specific to the engine that is homologated with the car, is it not? With that being the case then no one but GM can authorize the use of the engine. Which seems to be the case with the AM lump also.


L.P.

Is there any reason GM would block this, unless GM themselves have their own P1?

Looks win, win to me, a low risk option with big potential benefits publicity wise.

As for an homologated engine, in rallying you do find differing engine builders, even for whole cars. A while back RED and MSPORT built their own versions of the Escort Cosworth/WRC, not sure what happens these days.

Weren't there a couple of different Saleen Ford V8 specs, yet all homologated/legal.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

true for RML, but i would think that the performance of the BK lola mazda coupe in the states could potentially hold a bearing on wether RML maybe got a lola coupe as we have only seen so far how the lola coupe P2 fares with a N/A engine and not a turbo engine.

also with RML i was referring to the fact that with the support from MG the RML Lola may receive more than just engine updates, possibly aero, suspension and more.

What about a P2 Lola Coupe with an Aston Martin V8???

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Is there any reason GM would block this, unless GM themselves have their own P1?

Looks win, win to me, a low risk option with big potential benefits publicity wise.

Huh? Low risk? Someone out there peddaling your name with a large chance of mucking it up! I think not!

As for an homologated engine, in rallying you do find differing engine builders, even for whole cars. A while back RED and MSPORT built their own versions of the Escort Cosworth/WRC, not sure what happens these days.

This ain't rallying!

Weren't there a couple of different Saleen Ford V8 specs, yet all homologated/legal.

It would not suprise me to see the LS7 has had evolutionary homologation updates. But everytime it happens it has to be re-homologated.

It still belongs to somebody, most people/companies do not spend mega bucks on development to just give it away.

L.P.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

First off, the question was; "Can P&M/Katech (?) supply GT1 engines regardless of factory support, as a privateer business?"
Both of these are under contractual obligation to GM. They (Katech) produce the product(s) that are in question, for GM.

I asked about buying an LS7.r engine. Price was $125,000 and NO I was not approved to puchase one. But Might get approved to purchase a slightly used C5r engine for $85,000 - Ummm Pass

As to whether or not anyone can produce the engine(s) in question, I may be wrong, but, the rule is for homologated engines. A homologated engine, is specific to the engine that is homologated with the car, is it not? With that being the case then no one but GM can authorize the use of the engine. Which seems to be the case with the AM lump also.


L.P.

Correct. Only GM may approve who can use their engines.

[Aslak Vind]

The new Audi will be closed, I am told..

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by JAG

Where's the Pescarolo news from?

Just found this on End-info .

"Le Mans Racing magazine reporting Pescarolo to 7lt GT1 power for LMP1 in 2009 - oh and Red Bull sponsorship...!"

Sounds great ..... lots of Red Bull drivers out there . Phillip Peter stands to mind for one .

[rich07]

Phillip Peters raced an Audi R8 at Le Mans didn't he? With Red Bull backing, though I cant remember the year.

[The Badger]

2001 I think , with Werner-Krumm . The Red Bull sponsorship was only on his helmet , so it was more a personal sponsor .

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

The new Audi will be closed, I am told..

Earlier this year(just after Barcelona) Audi said that they wanted their new car to be an open car-did Audi figure out that the rules might not promote performance equilvancy between GTP LMP1s and open LMP1s, or does Audi see a design advantage to the GTP and/or a way of overcoming it's disadvantages?

[cmk]

Christian Klein also has Red Bull backing (those Austrians...), so depending on a) the trajectory of Peugeot and b) there being any credence to that rumour whatsoever, I would not be surprised to see him involved. Phillip Peter too - proto experience not just with Audi in the R8 for 2 races, but also at Le Mans for Swiss Spirit with the Courage. Karl Wendlinger has also held Red Bull backing.

If it's Henri, though, will he really want to give up more than a seat to a non-Frenchman? Even Harold Primat is a stretch!

French Red Bull drivers, eh? Bourdais? Buemi (Swiss like Primat)?

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by cmk

If it's Henri, though, will he really want to give up more than a seat to a non-Frenchman? Even Harold Primat is a stretch!

Its amazing just how far a check from Deiter Matschitz (Red Bull) will go .....

Im sure if he wanted , he could afford to put Micheal Schumacher in that car . His pockets are infinate to what he wants .... I used to work for him , and he is one hell of gentleman ..... nice man , he spent 50 to 60 million euro on restoring the only presureised Douglas DC-6B still in service today ..... VIP , the works . I worked on it too , anything you wanted ..... ask .