Ryan Briscoe & Toyota

karimbo · 12 Aug 2006, 04:04 (Ref:1680383)

Ryan was a Toyota driver last year. He even tested the car earlier this year.

Are there still links between him and Toyota?

mountainstar · 12 Aug 2006, 06:41 (Ref:1680445)

I remember reading in the Australian press those links were completely severed last year.

Hazard · 12 Aug 2006, 08:54 (Ref:1680501)

Yep, Briscoe occassionally driving a Honda powered car in IRL, and soon a Chevrolet powered Holden in V8's - kinda says he's not in the Toyota circle anymore.

SRabbit · 12 Aug 2006, 11:14 (Ref:1680559)

The old 18 degree Chevs are gone now. Ryan will be driving with the Holden Racing Team ( the factory team quite obviously ) who use engines built by...and here's name you all thought you'd never hear again..Tom Walkinshaw.

Tom has set up TWPG ( Tom Walkinshaw Performance Group ) which runs the 2 factory Holden cars (HRT) and also the 2 HSVDT ( Holden Special Vehicles cars, the performance division of Holden ) in our V8Supercar series.

**chunterer** · 12 Aug 2006, 13:00 (Ref:1680622)

Yes poor Ryan had a ferw expensive shunts during his Friday duties and then also had some serious wrekcs in the Ganassi IRL cars.

And as we all are fully aware nowadays, F1 teams don't like drivers who over do it anymore, even if the fans love it!

I suspect this had a major bearing on Toyota's decision not to continue with him a a full time backed driver.

Knowlesy · 12 Aug 2006, 19:46 (Ref:1680797)

I think it was the fact he was nothing special frankly, aside from his immense repair bills, which put Toyota off.

Though this doesn't stop them employing their current line-up!

Toyota logic.

marcus · 13 Aug 2006, 20:06 (Ref:1681450)

amazing though the amount of money they poured into his career , helping to pay for drives , grooming him with the media , im sure it racked up quite a bill.

but then they said no thanks ;(

DPRacing · 13 Aug 2006, 20:16 (Ref:1681465)

Is Frank Perera still a Toyota driver?

mac · 14 Aug 2006, 04:43 (Ref:1681749)

Well, there was an offer on the table for him to be a Toyota F1 tester this year.

He declined it, in order to pursue a drive with PKV - which he was very close to securing. Unfortunately the actions of a rival Champ Car team owner saw that opportunity evaporate, and Ryan was left without a ride.

Needless to say the link with Toyota no longer exists.

Personally, I think it is one of the great shames of motorsport that Ryan Briscoe does not have a good ride somewhere in the world - he is a stunningly fast talent.

Theory is that he will be Australia's main driver in the next A1GP season.

I wonder if things might have turned out better had he chosen Jordan F1 over Ganassi.

One of Ryan's biggest problems is the waste-of-space that parades as his manager - though that title suggests he actually does something.

mountainstar · 14 Aug 2006, 04:52 (Ref:1681752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus

amazing though the amount of money they poured into his career , helping to pay for drives , grooming him with the media , im sure it racked up quite a bill.

but then they said no thanks ;(

I remember an F1 engineer saying it only takes half a day to see if someone is good enough to drive F1.

I heard little bits here and there that when it came to testing an F1 car he was lacking. He certainly collapsed when he drove for Nordic in F3000 and they had won the championship the year before.

For whatever reason toyota paid his way though to the end. I heard the final straw was when he was offered a Jordan ride. Jordan would get toyota engines and toyota would subsidize part of the budget. As I understand it, briscoe had to find $4 million in sponsorship with the view that he would race for Jordan to get experience and then move to the Toyota team if he did well. Apparently he made no effort to find the money and took the easy way out with ganassi in the irl. That ended in disaster. He tested once more for Toyota out of contract, but it wasn't enough to save his skin. Toyota even offered a Super GT ride, but he turned that down.

In any case, toyota should be thanked because they essentially paid for a career he never would have had without toyota funding. What he does with that gift we shall see. I suspect if he can't get any traction going on a US career, he will permanently return to Australia and race V8's until he retires.

mac · 14 Aug 2006, 04:57 (Ref:1681754)

Au contraire.

Ryan was very well thought of by the Toyota crew - hence why he spent three years testing for them.

And why he was asked back to be a tester for them this season.

In fact, last time he drove an F1 car, he jumped in after over a year out of an F1 car, over three months out of any high-powered race car, and he was promptly (and consistently) faster than Trulli, Schumacher on Zonta in a three day test at Barcelona.

The Nordic thing was a disaster for everyone one involved - but it is the only time in his career when he was not fast - car or driver issue?

Notso Swift · 14 Aug 2006, 06:12 (Ref:1681779)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

And why he was asked back to be a tester for them this season.

In fact, last time he drove an F1 car, he jumped in after over a year out of an F1 car, over three months out of any high-powered race car, and he was promptly (and consistently) faster than Trulli, Schumacher on Zonta in a three day test at Barcelona.

And it was the first drive after that momentus IRL crash

If it takes an engineer a 1/2 day to work out if you have got "it" then I geuss there was a resounding yes from the Toyota camp, otherwise why keep someone on for a couple of extra years?

I am glad you are in a position to just find $4m moutainstar. considering that would fund a team in our local V8's and basically guarentee exposure on local TV 40 weeks per year he would not be likely to find it in Aus. It is unfortunate, but it is hardly a unique story, unless you are from Brasil.

mac · 14 Aug 2006, 06:35 (Ref:1681789)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I heard the final straw was when he was offered a Jordan ride. Jordan would get toyota engines and toyota would subsidize part of the budget. As I understand it, briscoe had to find $4 million in sponsorship with the view that he would race for Jordan to get experience and then move to the Toyota team if he did well. Apparently he made no effort to find the money and took the easy way out with ganassi in the irl. That ended in disaster. He tested once more for Toyota out of contract, but it wasn't enough to save his skin. Toyota even offered a Super GT ride, but he turned that down.

The Jordan thing was locked up - Ryan declined for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, he decided to go with Ganassi because he wanted to race for a proven championship-winning team - not a backmarking team on their way out. Secondly, Briscoe had already been stung by his time at Nordic - a situation he understandably didn't want to go through again in the spotlight of F1. He decided his better option would be to go and race with Ganassi - with a plan of returning to F1 evetually.

The notion that Ryan failed in IRL is a total myth - everytime he was on a road or street course, he was quicker than his team mates, and usually everybody else. On ovals, he was usually as quick as his team mates. Toyota engines failed Ryan Briscoe in IRL.

Briscoe turned down pretty much everything in the off-season because he was confident of the PKV ride. Unfortunately that disappeared due to some alleged devillish behaviour from a rival team owner.

His test for Toyota F1 last off-season was phenomenal, and the team offered him a testing role for this year (how many tests has Panis been to in '06?) - but he held out for a race ride in Champ Car.

He didn't take the Super GT drive because he saw what it did for James Courtney's international career - nothing!

Ask Ryan if turning down the Jordan ride was a mistake, I guarantee you'll get a sheepish "probably" for an answer.

Which brings us back to the alleged excuse for a manager that is allegedly more concerned in his alleged sportscar "career" than his client. If Briscoe had ditched him years ago and found a proper manager, who knows where he might be now? I doubt it would be sitting on his couch watching racing.

ensign14 · 14 Aug 2006, 08:35 (Ref:1681868)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

The notion that Ryan failed in IRL is a total myth - everytime he was on a road or street course, he was quicker than his team mates, and usually everybody else. On ovals, he was usually as quick as his team mates. Toyota engines failed Ryan Briscoe in IRL.

Ryan Briscoe's 2005 IRL record:

Homestead-Miami Speedway - Accident

Phoenix International Raceway -Accident

Streets of St. Petersburg - Accident

Twin Ring Motegi - Running (12th out of 14)

Indianapolis Motor Speedway - Running (10th out of 15)

Texas Motor Speedway - Running (12th out of 19)

Richmond International Raceway - Accident

Kansas Speedway - Mechanical

Nashville Superspeedway - Running (8th out of 13, beating B Lazier, Carpenter, Yasukawa, 4oyt, Kite)

The Milwaukee Mile - Did Not Start (Accident)

Michigan International Speedway - Running (10th out of 13, beating Barron, 4oyt and Kite)

Kentucky Speedway - Running (13th out of 16, beating Rice, J Lazier and Danica)

Pikes Peak International Raceway - Accident

Infineon Raceway - Accident

Chicagoland Speedway - Accident

Were all those accidents down to Toyota engines?

As far as his team-mates were concerned, Darren Manning in 10 races scored a 6th, a 7th, a couple of 8ths and a 9th. But not being a Toyota bumchum he got the heave-ho despite being well ahead of Flyin' Ryan in the points at the time.

Scott Dixon had five top 10s and a win.

Dixie Flatline · 14 Aug 2006, 12:40 (Ref:1682141)

My wife met Ryan in the paddock at the Australian Grand Prix a couple of years ago. Very nice person - even offered to sign an autograph for my wife, but the offer was declined on account of a lack of pen!

Knowlesy · 14 Aug 2006, 15:36 (Ref:1682312)

He probably is a delightful person. But not a top line race driver.

F3000 was a disaster, in IRL he very nearly killed himself and his Toyota testing was hardly setting the world alight. Let's face it, he won't become a great. I don't see top racing organisations clamouring for the services of this "stunningly fast talent".

mountainstar · 14 Aug 2006, 19:29 (Ref:1682494)

Didn't know I'd get everyone so emotional. I have nothing against the guy and only wrote what I've heard.

In any case it's results that count and regardless of who shot john, the fact is he's out of contract and is nowhere near F1.

Certainly having a good manager makes a difference and it may have mattered here.

deejay · 15 Aug 2006, 00:45 (Ref:1682732)

He should never have gone to the IRL - he was no good on ovals. He crashed too much, that simple. Why did he go to IRL when he wanted to be in F1? It'd different for a driver like Wheldon who has made his name there, but Briscoe already had a foot in the F1 door. He had nothing to gain (and it turns out everything to lose) by going to an oval series.

His one oval race in the IRL this year he pulled out because he couldn't get the car to handle properly.

I guess you have to turn to his management for why he was there in the first place.

mac · 15 Aug 2006, 01:29 (Ref:1682748)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Didn't know I'd get everyone so emotional. I have nothing against the guy and only wrote what I've heard.

Not getting emotional - just correcting inaccuracies.

The rationale behind a lot of Ryan's accidents was that the Ganassi team set the car up to be so on the edge of corner performance to make up for the engine's lack of ability.

Ryan quite often pushed it further than his team mates.

His speed on road courses was unquestionable in IRL. As was his speed testing for the F1 team knowlesey - maybe go and check some of his tests (especially his last one) before spurting guesstimations.

If he was a Brit, like a certain testing wunderkind that gets rave reviews on here, you might have taken more notice.

In three year's of testing, the only scratch Ryan put on the F1 car was when he had a mechanical failure at Spa - and he was always very quick.

Dixie Flatline · 15 Aug 2006, 01:37 (Ref:1682750)

You would have to wonder why, if Briscoe was no good, that Toyota kept him on as a test driver for such a long time.

Obviously, Briscoe is in the business as a professional racer and probably thought that with the likes of Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli already in the seats, that he was unlikely to be given a break by Toyota to actually race in Formula One in the near future. In relation to the mooted drive at Jordan, unlike in Europe and South America (especially Brazil), it's very very difficult to raise any kind of sponsorship to fund a drive in Formula One from Australia. Unless it's the Australian Grand Prix, or another time-friendly race (such as Japan or China), most Grands Prix are on late on a Sunday night in Australia, which makes it much less attractive for potential sponsors than putting up a couple of ten thou or a hundred thou to support a V8 driver/team. Mark Webber struggled for a long time to scrape together enough sponsorship to get his seat in the Minardi, which goes a way to explaining why he made his debut at a relatively old age, comparatively.

Without the ability to raise cash quickly, no doubt Briscoe thought that his best bet was to keep sharp in another "top tier" open-wheeler competition and chose IRL. Of course, that didn't work out, but at least Briscoe gave it his best shot.

deejay · 15 Aug 2006, 01:53 (Ref:1682759)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

The rationale behind a lot of Ryan's accidents was that the Ganassi team set the car up to be so on the edge of corner performance to make up for the engine's lack of ability.

Ryan quite often pushed it further than his team mates.

Well, I think its more that he just couldn't drive ovals. He was generally slower than his teammates when he crashed out. Perhaps he just didn't know when to push.

We do know that the Ganassi was a dog to drive last year though (for the reason you mentioned and others) and also cost Darren Manning his career. Pretty tough for Ryan to be a rookie in that car with, as far as I know, no previous oval experience.

Quote:

His speed on road courses was unquestionable in IRL. As was his speed testing for the F1 team knowlesey - maybe go and check some of his tests (especially his last one) before spurting guesstimations.

No doubt. As a Dixon follower I was needless to say quite alarmed to see him being out-qualified by his rookie teammate on the two road courses they competed at last year.

However, by the same token, Ryan crashed out of both those races. No good being fast if you can't get to the finish. I don't think there's much question about Ryan's lap speed, but I can understand teams not wanting to go near him for his "race" record. An interesting case.

Perhaps if he'd had the nurturing from Toyota that Ferrari have given Massa things might be different now.

scramble · 15 Aug 2006, 07:21 (Ref:1682910)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

Well, there was an offer on the table for him to be a Toyota F1 tester this year.

He declined it, in order to pursue a drive with PKV - which he was very close to securing. Unfortunately the actions of a rival Champ Car team owner saw that opportunity evaporate, and Ryan was left without a ride.

Needless to say the link with Toyota no longer exists.

Personally, I think it is one of the great shames of motorsport that Ryan Briscoe does not have a good ride somewhere in the world - he is a stunningly fast talent.

Theory is that he will be Australia's main driver in the next A1GP season.

I wonder if things might have turned out better had he chosen Jordan F1 over Ganassi.

One of Ryan's biggest problems is the waste-of-space that parades as his manager - though that title suggests he actually does something.

Man this is rubbish, the guy didn't make it because he was no good simple. I have this belief that you are only a real loser in this life if you blame everyone and everything for your failures. Mac I have read many of your post's and I have to say you have some great knowlege and you right some interesting stuff but this isn't one of your best. Craig Gore is not the reason he is not in Champcar, Ryan Brisco is. These teams dont operate on F1 budgets and they dont have massive factory backing, they cant afford to repair these cars as quickly as Ryan can crash them. There has been several driver changes already this year and I haven't heard his name mentioned yet. Mabey Mr Gore has threatend all the team owners as well, he sure is one powerful dude.

Sorry about all of the spelling mistakes

ensign14 · 15 Aug 2006, 08:04 (Ref:1682938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac

If he was a Brit, like a certain testing wunderkind that gets rave reviews on here, you might have taken more notice.

There was a Brit on the Ganassi team who was ahead of Briscoe when he got the boot.

mac · 15 Aug 2006, 08:10 (Ref:1682943)

Was referring to knowlesy's testing "claim".

Knowlesy · 15 Aug 2006, 17:59 (Ref:1683440)

Which Brit is getting rave reviews on here? Paffett? We don't really know how he is doing.

Unless you are referring to Lewis Hamilton, although he hasn't tested yet.

I don't rave about drivers based on nationality, which is blatantly obvious if you ask me. I get excited about talented drivers.

Ryan Briscoe was and is by no means the worst driver in the world. However, he is not really above average either. Just another mediocre talent.

Some of his F1 tests were half decent, but they clearly haven't set the F1 teams into a frenzy for his lucrative signature.

And as for IRL, yes he did show good pace on the road and street courses. Unfortunately, he would then crash out.

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