What do we feel about...

[Adam43]

... Traction Control?

Promoted by Andy Wallace talking on RLM about the TC settings. In his car they go from 1 to 8. 1 is "real man", 8 is "big girls blouse".

In Sportscar and GT racing should we have just one setting though, zero?

[SebringMG]

Part of me wants to say ban it completely....however as the standards of drivers are variable i would say keep it - don't really want to see too many cars written off

Maybe ban it in P1 and GT1 as they are the more professional classes ?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

Part of me wants to say ban it completely....however as the standards of drivers are variable i would say keep it - don't really want to see too many cars written off

Maybe ban it in P1 and GT1 as they are the more professional classes ?

Porsche in ALMS would love it!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

... Traction Control?

Promoted by Andy Wallace talking on RLM about the TC settings. In his car they go from 1 to 8. 1 is "real man", 8 is "big girls blouse".

In Sportscar and GT racing should we have just one setting though, zero?

Traction Control?? = nanny controls for poor drivers.

[chewymonster]

Not using technology in race cars=against the ALMS/ACO/Le Mans style racing. But then again I am not a race car driver and don't know how much of a difference it makes.

[chernaudi]

Why not, as far as I know, Audi never used it in the R10 in a race yet. And if a car needs traction control, it's the R10, and the R8 beat the RS Spyders(ASR equiped) without it, and the ASR may've caused the two losses to the Audi(strain on the gearbox as Houston, and it interfering with the cars acceleration at Lime Rock, especially in traffic).

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Not using technology in race cars=against the ALMS/ACO/Le Mans style racing. But then again I am not a race car driver and don't know how much of a difference it makes.

It is purest evil.

You are right it does go against the general feel of the series. However they don't allow everything, e.g. adjustable aerodynamics.

[The Badger]

Ban it altogether ..... some can afford it , others cant .

[tux]

last year in the fia gt the balfe saleen was running without traction control i believe

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Ban it altogether ..... some can afford it , others cant .

This can be said of many things.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by chewymonster

Not using technology in race cars=against the ALMS/ACO/Le Mans style racing. But then again I am not a race car driver and don't know how much of a difference it makes.

Chewy TRACTION CONTROL is a huge difference. When TC is turned OFF the cars are much faster in the hands of a skilled driver.

The idea of Traction Control and Active Handling on race cars IMHO is for marketing of road going cars and poorly skilled race drivers.
TC & AH eats equipment as in brakes and tires like there is no tomorrow.

Having a car slide around a corner slightly is a good thing. Tires have their maximum grip just as the tire starts to slide sideways as it is moving forward. At that point the rubber is slightly liquid and sticks like glue.

For normal street / road going cars, TC & AH is a good thing and can save lifes.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Chewy TRACTION CONTROL is a huge difference. When TC is turned OFF the cars are much faster in the hands of a skilled driver.

I'm not sure how true this is nowadays, it depends on the system. A decent race traction control system can aid even the best driver in the world. Not only in consitency, but also in absolute lap time.

I don't know how sophisiticated the TC systems are in Sportscar though.

I don't disagree that it helps the lesser driver more, but a good system can help all.

The idea of Traction Control and Active Handling on race cars IMHO is for marketing of road going cars and poorly skilled race drivers.

TC & AH eats equipment as in brakes and tires like there is no tomorrow.

The degree that it does this depends on the sophistication of the system. Certainly on a road car it does. I took my Road Car onto a track once and, obviously, turned off the TC. Someone else took it out and forgot to turn off TC, the rear brakes got a lot hotter with it on. Of course, road cars generally acheive TC through braking the selected wheel unlike race cars.

Having a car slide around a corner slightly is a good thing. Tires have their maximum grip just as the tire starts to slide sideways as it is moving forward. At that point the rubber is slightly liquid and sticks like glue.

A good TC system will allow some slip.

For normal street / road going cars, TC & AH is a good thing and can save lifes.

Definetly. Even for the best driver. Driving on the road is different from driving on a track where you know the conditions and what is coming up.

Overall, I agree, in racing it has no place.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

This can be said of many things.

Sure can ..... its just my opinion that you asked for .

Traction control , ban it . Go back to manual gear shifting and maybe steel brakes too .

The onus is on the driver to look after his machine , which is a fair comment in my opinion .

If the driver cant look after his machine these days , it makes you wonder how in hell drivers coped before they got molly coddled with trickery .

[Aysedasi]

Ban it.

For me it has no place whatsoever in motor racing of any kind.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Sure can ..... its just my opinion that you asked for .

and thank you. I was just commenting on it.

Traction control , ban it .
...

Agreed.

[kdr]

not being technically minded i don't know what kind of traction control/engine management they run in F1...but i think i'd even rather listen to the whispering audi than the awful stuttering racket they make...its like listening to a race with all the cars stuck on the pitlane limiter.

[JHamilton]

I think it makes a huge difference between American and European circuits. European circuits, for the most part, are long, wide, sweeping tracks and they all appear smooth as glass. Many American circuits are tighter, extremely bumpy (in comparison), and you usually pay a higher price for leaving the asphalt. That being said, I'm all for TC....let's keep as many competitive cars at every race possible.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by kdr

not being technically minded i don't know what kind of traction control/engine management they run in F1...but i think i'd even rather listen to the whispering audi than the awful stuttering racket they make...its like listening to a race with all the cars stuck on the pitlane limiter.

It sounds like a kid playing with a balloon to me.

[canam]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I think it makes a huge difference between American and European circuits. European circuits, for the most part, are long, wide, sweeping tracks and they all appear smooth as glass. Many American circuits are tighter, extremely bumpy (in comparison), and you usually pay a higher price for leaving the asphalt. That being said, I'm all for TC....let's keep as many competitive cars at every race possible.

For some reason, European circuits see a lot more rain!! I think it rained at every race in the Le Mans (Endurance) Series in 2005. Often it is nearly impossible to keep up with the pace car!! Silverstone 1000k in 2005 really comes to mind.

[The Badger]

Well j hamilton ..... what would you have to say about traction control & ground effect's on the same car ?

You might end up with a F1 style precession in sportscars !!! No thanks

[JAG]

I've come around to TC, it takes skill to exploit the best out of TC and be quicker, rather than use it to compensate for your lack of skill.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by JAG

I've come around to TC, it takes skill to exploit the best out of TC and be quicker, rather than use it to compensate for your lack of skill.

Jag that is very ture. However, one does not always get the perfect line around a high speed corner. There will always be someone coming inside yourself, thinking they can get an advantage.

Many time the best line, is a defensive line, to keep ppl from attempting to pass. Thus causing TC to become activated and really slowing you down.

When we teach High Performance Driving and racing skills students ask us ' Should we turn AH/ TC OFF or leave it ON?

We tell them 'YES'.

Leave it ON untill you learn good smooth lines and saftey. Then turn it OFF to learn how to drive fast.

[Adam43]

Certainly it can get in the way in a road car on a track. You simply have less control of the car. It hinders progress and can make a car understeer more, which for a road car is generally the safe thing to do.

Overall though it seems that majority want shot of it for racing. Could the majority be right for once?

[JAG]

But road cars tend to be set-up to understeer as a matter of course, regardless of TC.

TC in competition cars can be set-up to allow cars to push the tail out without spinning, and be quicker all round.

A handfull of road cars however, like the Mitsubishi Evo, have all manner of driving aids, but they're set-up to oversteer and attack corners with safety.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by JAG

But road cars tend to be set-up to understeer as a matter of course, regardless of TC.

Yes, and the TC can accentuate that.

TC in competition cars can be set-up to allow cars to push the tail out without spinning, and be quicker all round.

I've never driven with a racing TC system, but I understand that is the case. As we said above it allows some slip.