[FIA GT] Vipers in FIA GT

[ViperACR]

I see that the vipers with tommy Archer are doing well in the SCCA speedvision World challenge series as they are presently second behind cadilac, and have been first the past 2 years running. But what happened to them in the FIA GT series. They are still the most winingest car in FIA GT history. Why happened to the rules to not have anyone drive them if they are doing very well in North America in the world Challenge series with very similar rules. In that series they are racing against all types of cars.

[cybersdorf]

The World Challenge regulations are not similar to FIA-GT; ALMS-GT is similar to FIA-GT. The old GTS-R is not competitive there anymore, either, As the example of Carsport America shows. The GTS/R is simply getting old now, and the new model is still not FIA- or ACO-homologated, and there is seemingly no intention on Dodge's part to have it homologated.

But with all respect, we've been through this before.

[SALEEN S7R]

ViperACR, as Cybersdorf has said the cars are simply old these days and technology has moved on from 2002, the last time IMO that the Viper was truly on the pace week in week out. You may be interested to know however that there is a Viper on the Spa 24hrs entry list this year entered by Force one.

[TheNewBob]

Where are Force One racing these days? Belcar? Italian GT? It's places like this where a Viper may still pay dividends. The idea that it's won the most in FIA GT history is testiment to the fact that the thing is pretty much ancient these days.

It's sometimes sad to see cars like this go, as I'm sure we're grateful for the times the Viper has given us, but all cars eventually die out (for example the 993-GT2 which, I think, went out 2 years before the Viper has done), and I'm sure it won't be too long before we see the same for the likes of the Lister Storm GT and even the Saleen S7R.

*edit* - I forget - we still have Belmondo's Viper's in GT1 in LMES - do they have any decent runs or do they generally tend to fight it out with the GT2 Porsches?

[Jeffrey-Lee]

Where are Force One racing these days?

Racing in the FFSA, French GT championship, along with 10 or so other Vipers

[cmk]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Where are Force One racing these days? Belcar? Italian GT? It's places like this where a Viper may still pay dividends. The idea that it's won the most in FIA GT history is testiment to the fact that the thing is pretty much ancient these days.

*edit* - I forget - we still have Belmondo's Viper's in GT1 in LMES - do they have any decent runs or do they generally tend to fight it out with the GT2 Porsches?

A Viper is still a hot ticket to have in Belcar, as evidenced by the success of the GLPK car before its accident, and the Finnish car when Vosse is in it. Alas, in Italian GT Vipers bring up the rear of the field, leftovers not able to keep up with the Maserati, 550s, Saleen, Lister, Lambo or even the 575s.

Your pessimistic assumption about the Belmondo Vipers is correct. Even with Benjamin Leuenberger in the car, no real pace.

[TheNewBob]

Has to be said GLPK are a pretty class act of a team, although in the likes of Belcar we don't really see the likes of the Maseratis, Saleens, Listers, Lambo's or Ferraris which dominate in other areas. At least from pictures or pages that I've seen there's only tended to be a Corvette, more Vipers and the bi-turbo Porsches most of the time...? It's still a pleasure seeing Vipers on the circuit, altho it seems they only do well when their opposition is limited...? Saying that, I mean no disrespect at all for the Belcar leading teams etc, who I'm sure run very capable outfits too.

[SALEEN S7R]

Whilst we all agree that the Viper is well past its hayday, I think many here will agree though that in a 24 hour race like the Spa 24hrs the Viper is still a definte contender for a top 6 finish, maybe even a outside shot at a podium if a few of the front runners have some reliablity issues.

[BSchneiderFan]

Yes, but you'd need a top-line team and three (or four) drivers who would wring the neck of the car every lap for 24 hours.

[SALEEN S7R]

Not really, although you would need 3 or 4 good drivers. Vipers will normally run for 24hrs non stop without any problems, now if u can get a Viper and 4 good drivers of say British GT, GT2 level, like the Jones Brothers for example they could get a very good result. The Viper should still be as fast as the lead GT2 cars, if not a bit faster. And every year we see just how well the Porsches do.

Probably wont happen, but under the right circumstances the Viper could still do well. IMO.

[Fab]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey-Lee

Racing in the FFSA, French GT championship, along with 10 or so other Vipers

... and a nice Saleen S7-R, a Maranello, a Lister, and some Porsches (in the GT1 category)... not doin' so bad, though ! (FIA-GT rules, if I can remember, the championship is ruled by Stéphane Ratel).



C° : David Fontayne

[Jeffrey-Lee]

Oh was my comment wasn't meant to bring the FFSA down at all Fab. Just mentioned it to show where the Vipers are racing

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Not really, although you would need 3 or 4 good drivers. Vipers will normally run for 24hrs non stop without any problems, now if u can get a Viper and 4 good drivers of say British GT, GT2 level, like the Jones Brothers for example they could get a very good result. The Viper should still be as fast as the lead GT2 cars, if not a bit faster. And every year we see just how well the Porsches do.

Probably wont happen, but under the right circumstances the Viper could still do well. IMO.

Question is, who's going to run a Viper of all things just to finish 6th at Spa? Might as well go for a GT2 class win or buy a better GT1 car. There could be wealthy amateurs who just happen to be Viper-lovers - but you'd hardly expect them to be really on the pace.

Yes, it could well get a decent finish in a 24hr race - but mainly through attrition, so internationally it's day has come and long since gone. Sadly, too.

[John Turner]

The Viper was effectively the first of the 'new age' front engined rear wheel drive GT cars, heralding the return of this great configuration to top flight motor racing. Its appearance triggered renewed interest in this class of cars leading to Ferrari 550, Corvette C5R and onto the current cars to beat, the Corvette C6R and Aston DBR9. It would not be expected to remain competitive with these cars anymore than the 1960 Ferrari 250GTSWB could remain competitive with the 1964 Shelby Cobra Daytona Coupe, from the last great age of such cars. The Viper's place in motor racing history is assured; it has started its inexorable drop down the echelons of motor racing ranks to emerge, in a few years time, a historic classic, and deservedly so.

[JAG]

Its really an old generation GT1 car that was rehomologated into GT2 when the 911 GT1 arrived.

As a result it had carbon bodywork and other mods that were not actually legal in GT2/GTS at that time.

[Fab]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey-Lee

Oh was my comment wasn't meant to bring the FFSA down at all Fab.

... and wasn't taken negatively

But as the championship is so few advertised there, I jumped on the opportunity

[TheNewBob]

Since it's got little advertising for it, I'd like to know a little more about FFSA (not least what the letters stand for!) - as in any decent international teams, what GT2 cars, do they have GT3 too, perhaps? Plus circuits, like do they actually attend anywhere not in France?

Another championship I know sod-all about

[BSchneiderFan]

Don't know the French for it exactly, but I think the FFSA is the French Federation of Motor Sport.

[cybersdorf]

Yep, that's what it is - Fédération Française du Sport Automobile

[TheNewBob]

...whats wrong with just "French GT" - bit easier to remember isn't it!?

[cmk]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

...whats wrong with just "French GT" - bit easier to remember isn't it!?

Well, they didn't design it to be accessible for a bunch of filthy Anglos, did they?

Virages and Infoscourse always have news on the series, in French, but at least pictures are available. Claude (I believe) does writeups in English for a certain subscription service. Great little series, love to read about it whenever I can.

[JAG]

Its shown on Motors TV in the 'France' something show that also covers the 206CC Cup and French Superturismo.

Fantastic grids, makes you realise what a huge, huge loss GT1 is to British GTs.

[TheNewBob]

Forget GT1 in BGT - we got the possibility of losing the whole lot to contend with! But I do miss that class in national racing in Britain... national championships are great for bringing rare and weird n wonderful cars to the tracks - BGT has (or rather HAD) the Ultima in GT2 I guess - I've also never seen a GT2 Corvette anywhere else.

Does France have any rare cars like that? I mean stuff you wouldn't see in the likes of FIA GT or LMES (that's apart from Vipers lol)

[BSchneiderFan]

Are there any Venturis left in the FFSA series?

[cmk]

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

Does France have any rare cars like that? I mean stuff you wouldn't see in the likes of FIA GT or LMES (that's apart from Vipers lol)

They had a GT2 Supra last year, if I remember it did win in FFSA, and ran in Bahrain as well. They did have Venturis and a VBM for a while, but they are all gone. Lots of Lambo cup cars in GT3 some years too.