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1 Jan 2010, 19:35 (Ref:2607134) | #1 | ||
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Top Drivers of the 2000s Super-Poll
Just picking a straight top 10 from the whole decade is a bit flawed, since the tendency is to have a bias towards drivers and performances in more recent seasons – see Tony Dodgins’ recent top 10 for the decade on Autosport, in which he includes Kubica but not Coulthard and Barrichello. Thus, I have worked out a fairer method for compiling a ranked order for the 2000s - by compiling top 10s for each year and then totalling and averaging the results
So here's the idea: - Post your top 10s for each year of the 2000s - I know it sounds a bit long-winded but this will work - These are then converted into points - 10 points for 1st, 9 for 2nd, down to 1 for 10th for each year - The scores are then totalled, and then averaged for each driver by the number of seasons they raced in - a season only counts if the driver started 5 or more races, so Kubica in 2006 counts as he started 6 but Villeneuve in 2004 doesn't count as he only started 3. You cannot include a driver in a list if he didn't start 5 or more races, as that would be silly - The standings are then sorted by the average score rather than the total. This is done to prevent bias towards those drivers who have been around for most/all of the decade (i.e. Barrichello, Fisichella, Trulli, Coulthard etc) and against those who have only been around a couple of years (i.e. Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica etc) Advice: - You have to do all 10 years. Otherwise it'll be biased towards whichever years you did because the scores are totalled - If you don't know much about the year, don't cheat - if it's similar to the championship standings, that's OK, but don't just copy them - You don't have to justify each and every selection if you don't want to. As long as you make the lists reasonable, there should be no problem - You can either rank on outright performance (that is regardless of machinery - for instance, putting Webber on top in 2002 despite the fact that he was driving a Minardi) or significance (that is generally ranking the drivers in the best cars towards the head of the list) Hopefully this will lead to a relatively unbiased final list that we can all accept - it should because everything should average out. I don't expect too many surprises at the top end of the standings - it'll almost certainly be Michael, followed by a combination of Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton. But it's the positions after that I'm most interested in - I was surprised when I did this for my own overall top 10 to see how it came out, and I think others will be surprised too -------------------- For the record, my top 10s are 2000 1) M Schumacher 2) Hakkinen 3) Coulthard 4) R Schumacher 5) Villeneuve 6) Barrichello 7) Button 8) Fisichella 9) Salo 10) Frentzen Michael was the most consistent driver through the whole season, apart from his mid-season falter which partly wasn't his fault. The McLaren drivers were much of a muchness. Ralf and Villeneuve were best of the rest, both comfortably beating team mates. Rubens was a bit average but there was that win. Button was good for a rookie. Fisi scored a few podiums but was inconsistent. Salo easily beat Diniz at Sauber, and Frentzen beat Trulli but was a bit mediocre compared to 99 2001 1) M Schumacher 2) Coulthard 3) R Schumacher 4) Montoya 5) Barrichello 6) Raikkonen 7) Heidfeld 8) Villeneuve 9) Hakkinen 10) Alesi With Michael easily the best, DC was probably next up after a few decent wins - Brazil stands out. This was Ralf's breakthrough year, and I think it was overlooked in favour of Montoya's first year. Rubens didn't win a race but was consistent. Raikkonen had a great first year, just edging Heidfeld on account of the fact that he was so inexperienced. Villeneuve was decent again, Hakkinen was clearly heading downhill, and Alesi had some great performances for Prost before doing well at Jordan 2002 1) M Schumacher 2) Barrichello 3) Montoya 4) Coulthard 5) Raikkonen 6) R Schumacher 7) Button 8) Fisichella 9) Heidfeld 10) Webber Ferrari dominated everything. Montoya was the next best man, although he didn't win a race. DC just edges Raikkonen because he took his opportunity to win whilst Kimi didn't. Ralf still did a decent job. Button had a better year for Renault, beating the more experienced Trulli. Fisi was consistent for Jordan, Heidfeld was consistent again, and Webber starred on a couple of occasions in the Minardi 2003 1) M Schumacher 2) Raikkonen 3) Montoya 4) Alonso 5) Barrichello 6) Webber 7) R Schumacher 8) Button 9) Trulli 10) Fisichella Michael won the most races and would've been further ahead but for the points system so he deserves top spot. Kimi ran him close and deserved more wins, whilst Montoya was the best driver in the second half of the season. Alonso did well on his return. Rubens had a good year. Webber again punched above his weight. Button drove Villeneuve out at BAR as they headed upwards. Trulli got beaten comfortably by his young team mate but still deserves a top 10 spot, whilst Fisi gets in because of Brazil 2004 1) M Schumacher 2) Button 3) Raikkonen 4) Barrichello 5) Montoya 6) Fisichella 7) Alonso 8) Trulli 9) Sato 10) Heidfeld Button was probably the most consistent driver out there behind Michael so deserves to slot in behind. Raikkonen was hideously unlucky for a lot of the year and deserved more. Rubens had another good year but still couldn't really get close to Michael. Montoya won a race and was consistent. Fisi was superb for Sauber. Alonso had a more disappointing year and for a lot of it was behind Trulli, although I've put him behind because of the second half of the year. Sato was a bit unlucky at times too, and Heidfeld was underdog of the year with 2 points finishes for Jordan 2005 1) Alonso 2) Raikkonen 3) Montoya 4) M Schumacher 5) Trulli 6) Coulthard 7) Webber 8) Heidfeld 9) Barrichello 10) Button The debate over the top 2 will rage on forever so I'm not going into that. I've put JPM ahead of Michael because despite a couple of mistakes, Montoya won a few races and was unlucky at other times. Trulli was excellent early on for Toyota (I feel harsh for leaving Ralf out, though). DC was back to his best. Webber is ahead of Heidfeld mainly due to the fact that Mark lost a good result in Malaysia because of Fisi which Nick then inherited - otherwise, Mark was top dog in the team. Rubens had a decent year but again still couldn't take it to Michael, whilst Button recovered well in the second half of the year 2006 1) Alonso 2) M Schumacher 3) Massa 4) Raikkonen 5) Button 6) Webber 7) Heidfeld 8) Barrichello 9) Fisichella 10) Kubica Alonso just edges this one because the FIA were trying to engineer the title. Massa had an impressive year and showed how much he'd improved. Raikkonen was the best non-winner again. Button did win and was the form man of the second half. Webber was greatly hindered by unreliability and lost loads of decent results. Heidfeld was consistent, Rubens was OK, Fisi was a bit rubbish but still gets in because he won a race, and Kubica was the find of the season 2007 1) Hamilton 2) Raikkonen 3) Alonso 4) Massa 5) Heidfeld 6) Webber 7) Kovalainen 8) Rosberg 9) Kubica 10) Sato Lewis was an electrical glitch from the title and saw off the reigning champion, so I'm putting him just above Raikkonen who was asleep for the first half of the year. Alonso faded into the background when it mattered and his Fuji crash cost him. Massa was better than was recognised at the time. Then it's the usual candidates - consistent Heidfeld and unlucky Webber - followed by improving rookie Heikki, Rosberg who saw off Wurz comfortably, Kubica who had a tough but OK second year, and Sato for the giant-killing in the first half of the season 2008 1) Kubica 2) Alonso 3) Hamilton 4) Massa 5) Vettel 6) Trulli 7) Webber 8) Glock 9) Heidfeld 10) Raikkonen Kubica ends on top as he was the man most accepted as the most consistent that year. Alonso came back strong in the second half. Lewis won the title despite a few hiccups, whilst Massa lost it because of a few hiccups. Vettel and Webber led the RBT charge whilst Trulli and Glock benefited from a Toyota resurgence. Heidfeld was again consistent but was slow in qualifying, whilst Raikkonen only gets in (and added on to the original list I did last year) because he won 2 races - the rest was poor, but it would be unfair to leave out a 2-time race winner (which should've been at least 3 but for the problems in France) 2009 1) Vettel 2) Webber 3) Hamilton 4) Button 5) Barrichello 6) Alonso 7) Rosberg 8) Massa 9) Raikkonen 10) Glock This being the most recent season, it should be self-explanatory. I've gone for the Red Bull drivers ahead of the Brawns as they were generally more consistent through the season, where as Button dipped in the second half and Barrichello was average in the first half. Lewis is sandwiched in between I did these by looking at various stats and rankings made at the time, mainly by looking at the Atlas top 10s for each year. I don't really remember enough of the first half of the decade, particularly the Schumacher years when I didn't watch much, to make as definitive a judgement as the later years, so I'm sure those who have been fully concentrating on F1 the last 10 years can do better |
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
1 Jan 2010, 21:07 (Ref:2607156) | #2 | |
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hmmmm....will have to think about this a bit.
Oh, and wasn't Button 'consistently' in the points in 09? Scored points (or a point) in every race except one. Something you must be able to do when the competition is close. Great idea though Jab. |
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1 Jan 2010, 21:26 (Ref:2607161) | #3 | |||
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But there we are. If we all agreed, I wouldn't be posting this thread. To compensate, I feel I've been generous towards Jenson with some of my other ratings so it all balances out Last edited by jab; 1 Jan 2010 at 21:36. |
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
1 Jan 2010, 22:01 (Ref:2607169) | #4 | ||
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I'll have a go at this...
2000 01 M Schumacher 02 M Hakkinen 03 R Barrichello 04 D Coulthard 05 R Schumacher 06 G Fisichella 07 J Button 08 J Verstappen 09 J Villeneuve 10 H Frentzen It would be hard to argue against Michael Schumacher as the best overall, so I won't. On, theoretically, an even footing, Coulthard didn't get too close to Hakkinen, so Barrichello, who would become Schumacher's "lapdog", gets the nod for third place. Button had a good first season and Verstappen put in some very spirited drives for Arrows. 2001 01 M Schumacher 02 D Coulthard 03 R Schumacher 04 R Barrichello 05 M Hakkinen 06 N Heidfeld 07 K Raikkonen 08 J Verstappen 09 J Alesi 10 J Trulli Coulthard took the fight to Schumacher as well as ever he had before. Ralf Schumacher's victories see him riding high in my rankings. Heidfeld settled nicely at Sauber and scored numerous points, while newcomer team-mate Raikkonen excited fans the world over. More top stuff from Verstappen, particularly in Malaysia. Alesi finished almost every race in the championship. 2002 01 R Barrichello 02 R Schumacher 03 D Coulthard 04 J Montoya 05 M Schumacher 06 K Raikkonen 07 J Button 08 N Heidfeld 09 H Frentzen 10 J Trulli Michael Schumacher walked all over everyone, including team-mate Barrichello in the least sporting of ways. Barrichello could probably have run him closer had circumstances been different. For putting such a black mark against his name and alienating those tired of his monopoly, I have dropped his ranking. Heidfeld was solid and Frentzen impressed. 2003 01 K Raikkonen 02 M Schumacher 03 J Montoya 04 R Barrichello 05 R Schumacher 06 F Alonso 07 M Webber 08 J Button 09 C da Matta 10 H Frentzen So close was Raikkonen to Schumacher, albeit with a less reliable car, that I cannot fail to give him top spot. Montoya was good value, as was Alonso. Webber's second season in F1 went well. No Coulthard or Trulli, perhaps surprisingly. But Frentzen was good for Sauber and da Matta, when you look at it, had a very good debut year against Olivier Panis. 2004 01 M Schumacher 02 R Barrichello 03 J Button 04 F Alonso 05 J Trulli 06 J Montoya 07 T Sato 08 R Schumacher 09 K Raikkonen 10 G Fisichella The top two were superior this year. Button was, quite obviously, best of the rest. Alonso outdid Trulli but his sacking was perhaps unjustified, so he holds a reasonable position in the rankings here. Sato's best year puts him in seventh. Despite missing several races Ralf Schumacher did very well, while Fisichella was comfortably better than Massa at Sauber. 2005 01 F Alonso 02 K Raikkonen 03 J Montoya 04 M Schumacher 05 R Schumacher 06 J Trulli 07 G Fisichella 08 T Monteiro 09 J Button 10 M Webber Alonso's championship win broke Schumacher's title monopoly and Raikkonen and Montoya both impressed mightily. Ralf Schumacher defeated new team-mate Jarno Trulli. In a better car Fisichella was far from glory. Monteiro only retired from one race all year and could have performed very well in a better car, if only he'd had the chance. 2006 01 F Alonso 02 M Schumacher 03 F Massa 04 K Raikkonen 05 G Fisichella 06 J Button 07 R Barrichello 08 N Heidfeld 09 P de la Rosa 10 R Kubica Michael Schumacher put in some great drives in his final season while Massa came on leaps and bounds. Fisichella did a good job but was uninspiring and the likes of Button, on skill, ran him close. Barrichello retired fewer times than Jenson so merits his place nearby. Heidfeld crushed Villeneuve, de la Rosa made us all smile and Kubica stormed onto the scene. 2007 01 K Raikkonen 02 L Hamilton 03 F Alonso 04 N Heidfeld 05 F Massa 06 R Kubica 07 S Vettel 08 H Kovalainen 09 D Coulthard 10 A Wurz Raikkonen's title was deserved for his great end-of-season drives and many wins. Hamilton was impressive, and is placed one ahead of Alonso. Heidfeld was exceptional at the start of the year and broke the McLaren/Ferrari dominance of the early races. Vettel was an exciting newcomer while Kovalainen finished consistently and Wurz nailed some big results. 2008 01 L Hamilton 02 F Massa 03 R Kubica 04 N Heidfeld 05 K Raikkonen 06 F Alonso 07 S Vettel 08 R Barrichello 09 T Glock 10 J Trulli Hamilton took a lot of penalties during the year but still managed to win the title in some style. Kubica was incredibly good but robbed of a shot by his own team. Heidfeld, it must be remembered, was still in with a chance with just three rounds remaining. Vettel won a race and Barrichello outstripped Button convincingly. Glock and Trulli impressed at times. 2009 01 J Button 02 S Vettel 03 R Barrichello 04 L Hamilton 05 M Webber 06 K Raikkonen 07 N Rosberg 08 F Massa 09 J Trulli 10 N Heidfeld On balance Button did the best job, but Vettel and Barrichello, as championship contenders young and old, put in sterling effort to try to beat him. Hamilton's recovery mid-season was brilliant, and Raikkonen did very well. Rosberg was consistent. Massa was doing very well before his crash. Heidfeld beat Kubica again, proving his deftness for racing. |
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Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily." |
1 Jan 2010, 22:21 (Ref:2607172) | #5 | ||
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Great stuff. Just one question - Montoya, 2001?
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
2 Jan 2010, 00:06 (Ref:2607192) | #6 | ||
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Probably an oversight on my part - but there are bound to be little anomalies here and there.
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Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily." |
2 Jan 2010, 00:29 (Ref:2607202) | #7 | |||
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Worse still, he made some negative remark about Ayrton Senna just before he was killed. I can't even remember what it was, just that I marked his card indelibly at the time and it will forever remain so. |
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2 Jan 2010, 00:46 (Ref:2607209) | #8 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
2 Jan 2010, 14:38 (Ref:2607350) | #9 | ||
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Before he was killed? Surely it would be worse afterwards...
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Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily." |
2 Jan 2010, 14:50 (Ref:2607354) | #10 | |
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Lots of people had some bad things to say about Senna before he died, often with good reason to. He was no Angel either on or off the track.
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2 Jan 2010, 16:05 (Ref:2607376) | #11 | ||
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And that makes him a bad person does it? Pff, hardly. As Chiefy and Marbot have said, it would be worse if those comments were after his death. That is where it gets borderline offensive. Before? I see no wrong in that, everybody has differing opinions on every driver.
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A touring car and sportscar forum poster. The F1 sub forum is terrible! :P |
2 Jan 2010, 16:36 (Ref:2607383) | #12 | |||
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3 Jan 2010, 16:57 (Ref:2607688) | #13 | ||
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Just one question, who's going to gather all the rankings and calculate the 10 ten of all ?
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Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will |
3 Jan 2010, 17:22 (Ref:2607697) | #14 | ||
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By coincidence, James Allen has come up with his list. You can read the full article and his reasons for placing them as he does here, but I will quickly give you the list:
1. Michael Schumacher 2. Fernando Alonso 3. Lewis Hamilton 4. Kimi Raikkonen 5. Felipe Massa 6. Juan Pablo Montoya 7. Rubens Barrichello 8. Jenson Button 9. David Coulthard 10. Sebastian Vettel It makes a lot of sense to me, but I can see that it may be controversial on here. I would probably have included Mika, but really he wasn't in F1 for long in the last decade, even if there were some great moments in his last couple of years. |
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3 Jan 2010, 17:48 (Ref:2607704) | #15 | ||
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
3 Jan 2010, 19:32 (Ref:2607732) | #16 | ||
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Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will |
3 Jan 2010, 19:52 (Ref:2607742) | #17 | ||
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OK, great. Cheers Bon
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F1 fans - over-reacting about everything since forever |
13 Jan 2010, 21:33 (Ref:2612980) | #18 | ||
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There seems to be a slight lack of action here. :-/ :-S
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Belgian GP commentary: "Friday morning was nice and sunny - but not for Erik Comas, who crashed heavily." |
14 Jan 2010, 01:45 (Ref:2613094) | #19 | |
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Some forum members may not have even been born in 2000.
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14 Jan 2010, 12:03 (Ref:2613274) | #20 | |
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I can't remember as far back as 2000...
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14 Jan 2010, 13:27 (Ref:2613320) | #21 | |
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Oh to be 30 again. *sighs*
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20 Jan 2010, 22:29 (Ref:2616605) | #22 | |||
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To qualify this I am a Ferrari fan, I cannot stand Mclaren in any form and yet this man's skills transcended all that. It always dismayed me that he drove for the enemy. In similar circumstances, I was always grateful, that Schumi drove and dominated for Ferrari, yet I can't stand the bloke. Just that my team was winning. Before this comes across as some blinkered hero worship, I was appalled by Senna driving into Prost at Suzuka 1990. Could understand reasons why, Prost was a t****r, but his lack of regard for anybody was sickening. Ask Mr Brundle also, the amount of times they collided in F3... People said many bad things about Senna before his death and then raised him to sainthood immediately after. No balance. Likewise, many people hated Senna before his death, yet couldn't speak highly enough of him afterwards. You see it with many fans too, who have bought into the myth with t-shirts etc. The same fans that hurled abuse at him at Silverstone whenever he broke down. For this reason alone, I respect Piquet, who hated him in life and wouldn't allow hypocrisy to make him attend the funeral. They always say there's a fine line between madness and genius. I believe Senna strutted that line more than any driver before and since. |
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C YA |
21 Jan 2010, 03:06 (Ref:2616702) | #23 | |||
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Piquet has his own reasons to hate Senna, reasons that would put to shame Alonso and some others characters in F1. I would say that Senna opened the way for some successful drivers and their antics that we all know so well nowadays. |
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Show me a man who won't give it to his woman An' I'll show you somebody who will |
12 Feb 2010, 23:06 (Ref:2632439) | #24 | |
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Here's mine!
1) Schumacher 2) Alonso 3) Hamilton 4) Raikkonen 5) Barrichello 6) Montoya 7) Massa 8) Kubica 9) Vettel 10) Button |
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15 Feb 2010, 01:00 (Ref:2633602) | #25 | |
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My top ten of the decade:
1) M.Schumacher 2) F.Alonso 3) L.Hamilton 4) S.Vettel 5) M.Hakkinen 6) K.Raikkonen 7) J.Montoya 8) J.Button 9) F.Massa 10) M.Webber |
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