Moto GP 2012, Round 12 - Brno

[jhansen]

First day is done with Pedrosa on top. Lots of crashes today. Stoner and Hayden are out. Surly this will be Lorenzo vs. Pedrosa with Crutchlow, Dovi and Spies fighting for scraps. I fear a dreadful race.

[gomick]

Most likely, unless Crutchlow & Dovi can mix it up the front - anychance of rain?

[Schummy]

Nowadays the key of a good Sunday is watching Moto3 and Moto2.

Next year, with Rossi in Yamaha we will have another point of interest. Sadly we will not have Stoner. The days of four aliens are gone.

[chunder]

Watching Moto2 is staggeringly dull though

I struggle to find anything interesting in watching Marques play with the field and win, I find the class great but he is so much faster than everyone that it makes the class look a bit stupid.

Moto3 is great though

And fair play to Dani and Jorge, they put on a good show and nice to see Dani put one over him, and obviously Cal on the podium

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunder

I struggle to find anything interesting in watching Marques play with the field and win, I find the class great but he is so much faster than everyone that it makes the class look a bit stupid.

Isn't it a sign of how great Marques actually is. If he wasn't in it the series would be interesting?

Have to say, with the amount of great riders in Moto 2 (other than Marques that is) i can't understand why Tech 3 would go for Smith next year?

[chunder]

Marques is on a bike totally designed around him and none else, might aswell be a works bike, he is super light and very suited to these bikes.

He did very little for years on a 125 before he got on the best bike, so let's wait and see how he goes ona bike where being light doesnt matter.

More interesting without him, of course!! Redding would have won, Luthi, Iannone, Kallio, Pol, it would be much closer thats all

I just dont like seeing domination, I dont think he is that much quicker, just has an advantage in money, weight and stuff

[Schummy]

Originally Posted by chunder

Marques is on a bike totally designed around him and none else, might aswell be a works bike, he is super light and very suited to these bikes.

He did very little for years on a 125 before he got on the best bike, so let's wait and see how he goes ona bike where being light doesnt matter.

More interesting without him, of course!! Redding would have won, Luthi, Iannone, Kallio, Pol, it would be much closer thats all

I just dont like seeing domination, I dont think he is that much quicker, just has an advantage in money, weight and stuff

Wrong.

Marquez is not lighter than many other riders like Kallio, Stoner, Dovizioso,... (official data). He doesn't enjoy more money than, for example, other Repsol riders along the years. Same with the myth of "bike built for him".

He was WC when 17 years old, with Ajo's team, how can you say he did very little before he got big money?

Really unfortunate post.

[Mystery]

I don't hear him leading the calls for a min weight limit though ;-)

I think he'll struggle in the top class. Deserves a spot there for sure as he is a world class rider. But he'll be a Bautista I fear.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunder

Redding would have won,

Scott has to make it through the first lap to give himself a chance of that !

Btw, ever wondered why a rider like Marquez has the best bike? a bike designed round him? Because he's the best in the field. Rossi is living proof, that now matter how good a rider, he doesn't win without the best bike.

[gomick]

Frustrating to watch Luthi, bit like Dovi - they have the pace but cant pass... So wanted him to have a go at Marquez on that last lap

[chunder]

He did very little because he did very little, get your facts right before shouting please.

He looked out of sorts before getting on the AJO bike which was the best in the field and had won the championships with a nothing rider like Di Meglio who has done nothing since.

He did very little as a kid whereas other like Folger, Redding, Smith got podiums on poor bikes, that's all.

As soon as got on a rocketship he was the best out there, fair play to him for that. And you have the weight thing all wrong. He is tiny and his bike ACCELERATES faster than most, if you look most times he is passing people on exit rather than entry, spends lap after lap sitting up as he doesnt want to go.

Dont get me wrong, the lad is a talent, he is playing with the field which suggests he is a lot in reserve. But the Suter is totally built around him, notice how all of a sudden he and Luthi are up there again after being beat by Pol and Iannone and a few others, mid season Suter came up with a new chassis and fair play he uses it better than Luthi. But talk to a Kenan or Redding or Elias and they will tell you that bike is built around Marquez.

Also, he is dirty, always has been. He has that Biaggi air of arrogance and stuff about him which he really doent need. If you are that quick you dont need to ram, he falls off nearly every session which if he carrie son doing in GP he is gonna be crocked, somehow he saves it usually as Rossi used to. Lucky or Skilled, you decide, but Jorge never had this many moments in 250.

His team has the most money, the best bike and the best rider, in a class like Moto2 this sucks.

If you really want to watch him playing with people then fine, but for me he should have been in GP this year.

if you look at bthe way Honda have been working this, he is on every HRC/Repsol shindig, he is in the same press conferences as Dani and Casey, he might as well be on a Repsol Honda Moto2 bike.

It sucks for me, cant wait for him to sod off. Leave the class to the non aliens who dont have everything ona silver platter as he does

[barnettracing]

You always seem to have a large chip on your shoulder regarding anyone successful. It's self-perpetuating; the more money you have, the more successful you are, the more money you get etc.

[chunder]

It is largely to do also with him being Spanish, the series being basically Spanish and the whole series being basically about him. I have seen interviews with a few riders now who have left GP after decent results because they were usurped for a SPaniard with money. Its a real shame and very shallow.

I have no issue with people being well backed, there are teams out there notably well backed like Aspar, but they haven't got the riders or perhaps the best machines as they are unproven in 2.

Marquez just exudes something I dont like. Same as Pedrosa at the time, they are very similar, very well backed, an ex rider fauning over them as if he was their kid, huge sponsors, obvious ladder to the top.

SO very similar, and for myself I hope he falls on his arse as Dani really has done.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunder

I dont think he is that much quicker,

But a bit quicker is still quicker

Originally Posted by chunder

His team has the most money, the best bike and the best rider, in a class like Moto2 this sucks.

Make your mind up

[chunder]

Err, I never said he wasnt the best rider.

What I said was that he has not always been stellar.

Let me say this...

He didnt set the world alight on a KTM in 2008 or 2009. Maybe the bike was rubbish, there were few decent KTM riders then

But since being on the best bike he has been way quicker than everyone.

WOuldnt this be the same for countless, small, well backed, Spanish riders?

In answer yes, Elias, Pedrosa, Marquez, Terol, Martinez, Garriga, Olive, Bautista, Criville, Nieto, Lorenzo, etc etc.

Have all of them been good on a 500/GP bike.

NO.

Lets wait

[gomick]

He was only 15 in 2008 - by 17, world champ!
The fella is obviously class, just lucky that his country has lots of sponsors that are willing to get behind there riders! When is that Spanish market going to crash

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Good to see the premier class still has some excitement left in it amongst loads of boring races.

Have watched more WSBK and BSB this year but DP and JL put on one hell of a show at Brno. Shame about Stoner although we're going to have to get used to it for the sake of next year.

[chunder]

For me, a show lasts for more than a lap.

Most of the current races are a demonstration of tyre conservation as the Honda's cant seem to get a balance on tyres and have to go easy a lot of the time whereas the Yamaha just hasnt quite got the speed all race.

Its actually very similar to F1, in that a lot of the aces the guys are not going flat out to save tyres, typical Bridgestone to be honest, they manahed to single handedly ruin F1 with their biased tyre manufacturing, and here they have almost ruined it, its only because Honda have so much money and can redesign swingarmas and chassis that they are able to be anywhere near Yamaha who got their bike to use the new tyres far better.

As for Ducati, well I have no idea, nothing seems to work and even when it does the thing is 15 seconds a race off the pace.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunder

He didnt set the world alight on a KTM in 2008 or 2009. Maybe the bike was rubbish, there were few decent KTM riders then

But since being on the best bike he has been way quicker than everyone.

But you have to ask yourself, why was he then given the best bike? Maybe a pole position on the KTM showed what he was capable of?

Originally Posted by chunder

Have all of them been good on a 500/GP bike.

NO.

Lets wait

If Marc doesn't win 2 races in Moto GP next season, i'll be amazed.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by gomick

Frustrating to watch Luthi...

You and me both, maybe he is just a cautious human being and is unwilling to risk all, his psychology probably wouldn't let him even if the racer in him wanted him to stick a front wheel inside someone on the last lap. The flip side is, he stays upright and collects the points, if only he didn't have a few too many anonymous races mid season, he would probably have a major advantage. If and buts, pros and cons.

[chunder]

"given the best bike"

Repsol, Caixa, Red Bull might help there dont you think!

If he wins a race next year its becasue there are two real champions in the field Lorenzo and Rossi.

Dani is a winner yes, but not a champion in the big class, and Rossi is maybe not gonna be up to speed. Jorge is the only real credible champion, so with little other opposition Marc could win races.

But is it like beating a host of champions in something like 2008 like Stoner, Rossi, Hayden, Lorenzo, with the likes of Suzuki and Kawasaki able to get in there now and then too.

In all honesty any winner these days is beating such a thin field their achievements have to be undervalued just a little

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by chunder

Dani is a winner yes, but not a champion in the big class,

He may well be champion this season yet? To be fair to him, the only year he hasn't injured himself significantly enough to have a go at the title is 2006, when he was a rookie and this year (fingers crossed it stays that way), and who knows whats going to happen in the remaining 6 races?

[chunder]

Dani's problem is one that could also face Marquez

Guys like Rossi, Lorenzo and Stoner seem able to ride with injuries and still take victories..

All of them have done this in the past, but Dani I think needs all his strength to be on the pace, and maybe Quez will be the same, he is not as slight as Pedrosa but still fairly small, but seems to have more body, either that or I suspect that Suter is a tiny bike

The other guys are all a little biger with the exception of Casey who is seemingly on his limit with his problems to keep fit for this job, as he always looks beat after a race with this debilitating issue he has.

Jorge is super economical, and Rossi is just plain big and strong as Hayden, Loris et al are.

Unless Marquez changes his riding style to be very Lorenzo smooth I see him crashing a little, he is on the very edge now on a 2, and doing this on the GP tyres will cause him problems.

Crashing for a noob in GP is always likely, but I think his style will either have to be smoothed out or he will need to muscle up a bit to ride at his best with a few knocks, as Dani can't win with injuries!

[Schummy]

I think winning these years a MotoGP race is one of the most difficult achievements ever. I mean in this epoch of aliens, with 3 (formerly 4) excellent and regular riders. One has to look at the podiums to realize that just getting a podium is very difficult, only Dovi is able to do it eventually. Significantly, Crutchlow has been the fifth podium rider this season, out of 36 podium places.

Next season we will lose (apparently) Casey, but we regain Rossi, so we will have again three unassailable riders. Except in wet races, with its lottery factor, I think who wins a race will be, out of those three, will be a hero. In fact getting a podium will be a remarkable feat.

(Incidentally, Loris had the same weight as Marquez )

[chunder]

Rossi has to prove himself again ona top bike as he himself has admitted

Loris was light yes, as were Pedrosa, Lorenz back then and a few others, it is not the main ingredient.

But back when Loris was in 125 there was no weight limits so being tiny was a huge advnatge, hence Gianola and the Japanese were able to get in and dominate for a while.

Its not the be all and end all but in a formula where everything else is controlled like Moto2, to have that huge difference is rather unfair in my eyes.

I dont really think Pedrosa in an alien, not yhet anyway. He is about three quarters of the way there.

Stoner and Jorge are, and Rossi was, but so far Dani hasn't managed to be consistently able to win every race near enough like those guys are. How many times has he led then dropped away, he is getting there and right now I think he is one! But you have to do it for a year, and I thinki he is closer then ever right now.

I am actually starting to like Dani! Something I never thought I would! He smiles more, is enjoying being fit and able to battle, and thats great to see