Poor “racers” or the nature of the car?

[OZ_HCR32]

Looking through the list of peoples Top Ten drivers of 2005, got me thinking about the weighting of driver and equipment to overall performance? Its interesting to read peoples thoughts of the seasons respectively for Trulli, Button and Webber etc.

I use to want to believe Button was a ‘gun’ steerer, but to date im still not to sure how I rate him. He no doubt has the ability to put the car in very respectable grid positions, but come the race he seems to always drop back and struggle to get into the points.

Looking at the races of Trulli and Webber the same can be said. Their pace over a lap is pretty good, when you try your best to consider fuel loads, team mates respective qualifying times etc. But all too often they seem unable to capitalise on a strong qualifying performance and fall back places during races.

What I cant suss out is how much of it is the racer in them and how much is it the chassis/tyre combination that lacks the finesse to be quick over the length of the race?

RS always seems to race stronger then he qualifies…and im a pretty big critic of RS but credit where credit is due. The pace and consistency of RS over a race would suggest that the Toyota chassis doesn’t necessarily fall over during the race. The same can be said of NH and Webbers performances, where Heidfield often raced to a good finish whilst Webber would drop back from a stronger qualifying???

So Its easy to start thinking that perhaps Trulli/Webber need to work on their pace over a race, be it concentration, overtaking…I don’t know where they may be lacking. Button, well with Sato being his team mate its difficult to gauge the chassis or the drivers performance over a race distance.

So whilst nothing is ever as black and white as drivers fault, or chassis’ fault, I wonder how others sum up the race pace of certain drivers? Is it chassis, or even at this level can it be attributed to drivers?

[Kicking-back]

It's as simple as the BAR and Toyota had much stronger qualifying pace than race pace - which explains the Button and Trulli cases.

Button has shown in the past he can overtake.

As for Webber, well, his whole career has been about qualifying well and dropping back in the races as far as I can see.

[Gt_R]

Indeed. People had questioned Button's overtaking abilities, and i think he had shown himself to be pretty handy in those situation, even though he's not as forceful as JPM, which may not exactly be bad.

Webber and Trulli has a definite ability to qualify better than many drivers. Hence, they often put the car up in places on grid higher than faster cars, and struggle to keep up that pace for race. It's only a problem if your teammate qualifies and finishes ahead of them, and thus far, it has not been a serious problem for either one.

[chunterer]

I don't think Webber is similar to Trulli as a driver at all?

Webber is a get stuck in merchant, Trulli is delicate and the only similarities bwtween them is that recently their equipment has been flattered by them in qualy and can't let them sustain it in the race.

The Montoya's Suzuka style Alonso's and Kimi's of this world are attacking drivers hell bent on getting past the car in front (great for the audience) but a lot of the other drivers don't have that sort of seat of the pants feel and therefore don't take these kionds of risks..

[Hein]

Button - I think he definately has what it takes as a racing driver. You give him the right car (Honda?) and he will deliver the goods.

OK, here goes

Webber - Used to think he was one of the next "greats" but he kinda stuffed that notion this year. Hopefully he just had trouble "gelling" into his new team and will be back next year. Nothing wrong with is talent, just needs to use it.

Trulli - I think he had his best ever year in F1 (even if he dropped off a bit in the end). Him I rate very highly. As a qualifier he is brilliant (the best?), and as a racer he can beat the best if he just believes it. As with Ralf, he needs to be handled "kindly".

RS - More than enough talent, just not enough brain "usage". And by that I mean he does'nt seem to be able to concentrate for a long time (even if he has a good race every now and then). I think he is capable of much better.

NH - Great racer, good qualifier, great guy.

The car of course makes a big difference, but this is my 10 cents worth..

[Knowlesy]

Trulli's problem is he is a far better qualifier than anybody else, and therefore puts his car higher up than it should be. His actual races are no worse than his teammates, arguably better.

[Dutton]

Yep, I mean, in the case of Trulli, when he qualified the Toyota on 2nd/3rd on the grid....he wasn't ever going to do anything other than fall back. The car simply didn't have it in it. That didn't stop him getting bother about it, which must be annoying: you put in sparkling qualifying performances, and then end up getting grief about your race performance because that pace is not sustained throughout a race.

Anyway, as to the question of the thread, I would say that the car dictates the overall situation, but the traits/talents of the respective drivers make the difference in the last couple of a percent of things. It is always this way at the top of professional sport.

I guess it comes down to the drivers involved as to what is more likely to transpire. Different combiniations produce different styles of outcomes in such situations

As a general rule, though, assuming all other variables remaining constant, the more able the car to overtake the higher the likelihood of overtaking will be.

[BootsOntheSide]

Out of those three drivers, Button is perhaps the only one who has ever had a consistant run of raceday performances which have matched what he did in qualifying. Considering that Sato had many top-8 grid positions which he didn't convert into points last year, I'm pretty sure his problem was the car rather than the driver.

Trulli is perhaps the best qualifier there is (although Kimi was pretty spectacular at tiems last year considering the fuel loads), and probably one of the top 5 racers, weven though he is prone to the occasional poor raceday. That is inevitably going to result in some races where he fails to stay ahead of the faster cars he's outqualified. Jarno also seems to have a lot of appalling luck in the races - somethimes mechancial, or things completely beyond his control such as in Spain. Ralf finishing ahead of him was not a just reflection of their performances in my view.

Webber's poor starts don't help his cause, and neither does his tendency to get caught up in collisions. He may have also qualified ahead of what the car was likely to achieve on occasion. I don't rate Mark as high as Jenson or Jarno, but he's a solid driver who has the potential to improve further - Spa and Suzuka were gritty drives from further down the grid.

[QuickSilver]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Button is perhaps the only one who has ever had a consistant run of raceday performances which have matched what he did in qualifying.

I'd agree with that. I think once Button posts his maiden win, many more will follow over the years.

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Trulli is perhaps the best qualifier there is ... and probably one of the top 5 racers.

Hmmm, don't know about top 5. MS, FA, KR, JPM ... then Trulli? He's been around awhile and has yet to really impress me. Nothing I can really put my finger on on - sort of like Fisi, good but not top tier.

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Webber's poor starts don't help his cause, and neither does his tendency to get caught up in collisions ... he's a solid driver who has the potential to improve further.

That about sums it up. He gets himself in positions that he either can't defend or he gets impatient and winds up stuffing it.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

As for Webber, well, his whole career has been about qualifying well and dropping back in the races as far as I can see.

With the exceptions of the times in his career when Webber has moved up from his qualifying positions to win races, right KB.

Originally Posted by Hein

Webber - Used to think he was one of the next "greats" but he kinda stuffed that notion this year.

He or Williams or both of them ?

[Hein]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

He or Williams or both of them ?

Probably both.

[chunterer]

Webber will get there you'll see. Not in 2006 perhaps, but he might be looking quite good in 2007 if he ends up driving what a lot of people logically suggest.

[maltafan]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Webber will get there you'll see. Not in 2006 perhaps, but he might be looking quite good in 2007 if he ends up driving what a lot of people logically suggest.

Maybe he ends with Flav in Renault's newely vacated seat!!

[BootsOntheSide]

Yes, that's the running theory. Personally I think he'll need to impress enxt year to be sure of the drive.

[maltafan]

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Yes, that's the running theory. Personally I think he'll need to impress enxt year to be sure of the drive.

Yes I agree. Next year is a do or die for him. I hope that the Williams will be competent enough to help him show his abilities.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by maltafan

Yes I agree. Next year is a do or die for him. I hope that the Williams will be competent enough to help him show his abilities.

Do or die ? If thats the case there would be alot of other F1 drivers looking over there shoulders in 06.

With Alonso moving on Renault is a logical movement, with Kovalein (sorry about spelling) but with Renaults future in the air, a Williams Lexus/Toyota is also likely.