Red Bull Arrows Saab ?

[Don K]

The Sunday Times, june 17 2001, Business news
Private Equity has held discussions with Red Bull, the energy drink, to sell a 70% stake in Arrows, the Formula One racing team, for about £70m.
...
Red Bull has a 62% stake in the Swiss Sauber team, which has fared even worse than Arrows. But after a disagreement over direction, Deitrich Materschitz, the founder of Red Bull, has made it clear that he wants out of Sauber by the end of the current season.

He already has a relationship with Arrows through the sponsorship of Enrique Bernoldi, the Arrows driver who used to race for Sauber. Red Bull's name appears on the Arrows car driven by the Brazilian.
...
It is thought that talks are at an early stage

(Sorry, can't make the URL work)

[Valve Bounce]

Funny!! I read this on one of the F1 sites a couple of weeks ago.

[Minardi fan]

I heard a while ago that Sauber were retaining Red Bull for 2002. However, I think they may lose the major deal to Arrows, whose Orange deal ends this season I believe - and I heard that they have no intention of renewing it. Sauber have obviously already thought ahead about this as they now have Credit Suisse as a major sponsor.

[formula-3000net]

Last I heard, Orange will renew their sponsorship of Arrows...but only if they finish 5th or higher in the championship this year.

Incidentally Orange is launching as a brand in France this month, so more F1 sponsorship would be a good move.

[steve nielsen]

Orange have a 3 year contract, so that includes next year, the othe big sponsor: Chello has a 2 year contract and are in their last year..

But I think the engine part is much more important, not only for Arrows, but for F1 in general, there should be more manufacturers in F1.....

[Gt_R]

How about a rule that forces the top 3 contructor team's engine supplier to be available to provide engines (at worse a 1yr old engine, at best the works) for a 2nd team.

For example, Ferrari BMW and Merc finish in this order in the WCC this year. Minardi has no engine supply yet for 2002...so they can choose from which of the above 3 engines do they want for next year. If 2 back teams have no engine deals ie Prost and Minardi, the team who finishes ahead ie Prost in 10th Minardi in 11th, gets to make a choice first. Of course...they have to pay for the engines (but there is a price ceiling which gives the engine manufacturers a 10% profit). To make sure the system is not abused, (eg 5 teams without engine deals all opt for BMWs) each engine supplier is limited to 2 extra teams... and if the engine supplier already supply 1 extra teams while the other 2 teams have not, they can opt to reject the 2nd extra team or accept...

This would totally wipe out the lack of engines problem, and looking at what the Sauber could do with last year's Ferrari, it would make the back field teams alot of competitive!

Comments? Thoughts? I just hope it doesnt confuse..~

[steve nielsen]

The rumours are now that Tom Walkinshaw is talking to GM who are interested in F1......

[PoweredByHonda]

Originally posted by Gt_R
How about a rule that forces the top 3 contructor team's engine supplier to be available to provide engines (at worse a 1yr old engine, at best the works) for a 2nd team.

For example, Ferrari BMW and Merc finish in this order in the WCC this year. Minardi has no engine supply yet for 2002...so they can choose from which of the above 3 engines do they want for next year. If 2 back teams have no engine deals ie Prost and Minardi, the team who finishes ahead ie Prost in 10th Minardi in 11th, gets to make a choice first. Of course...they have to pay for the engines (but there is a price ceiling which gives the engine manufacturers a 10% profit). To make sure the system is not abused, (eg 5 teams without engine deals all opt for BMWs) each engine supplier is limited to 2 extra teams... and if the engine supplier already supply 1 extra teams while the other 2 teams have not, they can opt to reject the 2nd extra team or accept...

This would totally wipe out the lack of engines problem, and looking at what the Sauber could do with last year's Ferrari, it would make the back field teams alot of competitive!

Comments? Thoughts? I just hope it doesnt confuse..~

Nahhh, I don't think this will work. There's no way the FIA can make an Engine constructor like BMW to make extra engines. They just wouldn't comply. The best way is just to encourage other manufactures to enter F1.

[economy_waffle]

i must say im not suprised that sponsors change...i guess red bull are attracted to the fact that they will get good air time - wot with bernoldi driving for arrows n all....

[Speed]

Originally posted by formula-3000net
Last I heard, Orange will renew their sponsorship of Arrows...but only if they finish 5th or higher in the championship this year.

So far, Bernoldi had more TV coverage than Mika´s wife... (Thanks to his defensive race, on DC), this helps to get sponsorship, I guess...

[Total-F1]

Bernie has a little influence over manufacturers - Ford have never wanted to supply Minardi with those customer engines, and Ferrari needed a little persuading before leasing out their engines...maybe Mercedes will decide to cut their losses and supply another team?

[Total-F1]

(although BMW are strictly a one-team team)

[steve nielsen]

Yep, with Jos in Malasia, Austria and Canada(and also a litle in Monaco), and Bernoldi in Monaco Orange have to be very happy with TV coverage.........

[steve nielsen]

Arrows and GM
TOM WALKINSHAW has been very busy in recent days trying to decide what to do about engines next year. Arrows has a two-year deal with Asiatech although this can be terminated by either party at the end of this year. Much will depend on the upgrade of the Asiatech engine which is due to be introduced at the French Grand Prix.

Walkinshaw says that he will have a decision by the British GP in mid-July. In the meantime Walkinshaw has been shopping around to see what deals are available and has had long and detailed conversations with Cosworth Racing's Bernard Ferguson. Walkinshaw has also been talking to Renault Sport but the French company's problems with Benetton mean that a secondary supply for next year is not expected.

One intriguing rumor we have heard is that Walkinshaw is trying to do a deal with General Motors, in league with Red Bull's Dietrich Mateschitz who wants to promote his energy drink in the vast US market. At the moment Red Bull owns the majority of the shares in the Sauber team although Mateschitz is on the verge of selling these to Credit Suisse. Mateschitz has already put money into Arrows, sponsoring Enrique Bernoldi. Arrows has 40% of its equity up for sale and it has been having trouble finding a buyer.

Walkinshaw's idea is to give Arrows an American label and proposals have been circulated featuring an orange car with a star-spangled banner at the rear. General Motors would like to be in F1 but at the moment cannot justify a program but as the firm owns 20% of Fiat Auto there is a possibility that a deal could be done for a supply of Ferrari customer engines which could be badged as Chevrolets.

Chevrolet is moving back into single-seater racing in the United States for the first time since 1993 in a similar rebadging deal. The current Oldsmobile engines in the Indy Racing League will be known next year as Chevrolets as GM has decided to close down its Oldsmobile division as part of a huge company restructuring.
__________________________

Grand Prix.com

Wow: an Arrows Chevy(Ferrari Power!!)

[Speed]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
Yep, with Jos in Malasia, Austria and Canada(and also a litle in Monaco), and Bernoldi in Monaco Orange have to be very happy with TV coverage.........

What about Jos in Brasil (Ask Montoya for details).

[Super Tourer]

I've heard a few different reports. I believe that Red Bull will continue with Sauber due to their upturn in performance. The whole situation with Arrows and Sauber is purely the result of a fit of pique from the Red Bull boss, because Peter Sauber chose Kimi R over Bernoldi - and how right Sauber he was. Surely the boss of Red Bull must let a proper commercial decision take priority over an act of vengance as he know as the next hottest property in F1 carrying his brand and a team currently 4th in the constructors.

I never knew why he was so keen on Bernoldi in the first place whose achievements are poor.

As for Orange. Their share price plummeted after the floatation and Hans Snook who instigated the Orange F1 deal is not going to figure in Orange's future. Orange like all the telecoms, are allegedy facing dropping sales and heavy losses. I believe they tried to get out of the F1 deal this year. I can' see them continuing in the current market climate.

Red Bull will stay at Sauber and may just pay for Bernoldi's seat at Arrows - thats my guess.

[EERO]

Although GM have a share of FIAT, their ownership does not include the Ferrari Group. Although any deal is possible for those customer Ferrari's, GM would have no more claim to them than Petronas or Acer.

[steve nielsen]

Well Eero Ferrari is part of the FIAT group so I think GM also owns 20% of Ferrari, but even if that is'nt so Ferrari would be more willing to suply to GM than to Petronas or Prost.....

BTW: The rumours are that Asiatech is buying into Prost(who can't afford the Ferrari's anyway) and that Sauber does'nt want the second hand Ferrari's anymore