Alpine A367 F2 (elf 2)

[kurtiejjj]

I thought I'd kick this one of after going through an old book by Eddie Guba I noticed these great looking alpine F2 car's:




Jabouille's car

Obvious question for this forum: what happened to these certainly not conventional 70s F2 cars? Were they updated to form the kauhsen alpines? Where are they now?

There also seem to be a number of photos on the vague http://fotos.iher.net/ site.

[allenbrown]

One of them went into French hillclimbs in 1976. The others became the Kauhsen cars I believe.

[driftwood]

yes the car became a khausen F2 car

1 is in a museum in japan having raced in Japanese F2
1 car was sold 2 years ago in france to race in european F2 series
i have just looked at the fotos this is the F3 A360 car

the cars i refer to are the 76 cars Elf 2J alpine cars & these became the Khausen cars for 1977 season

[allenbrown]

Flicking through the Black Books, the Alpine A367-BMW first appears in 1972, Depailler driving one for Elf Coombs Racing from Hockenheim in April onwards.

In 1973, Jabouille joins the team and a second A367-BMW is built; a third joining the team as a space in July. Depaiiler won one race at the Nurburgring and had several second places.

In 1974, Ecurie Elf run four A367-BMWs for Jabouille, Tambay, Serpaggi, Leclere, Beltoise, Cudini and Arnoux. Jabouille won one race at Hockenheim.

For 1975, Jabouille inherited one of the A367s (chassis 4 says F1R, the one built new for 1974) and also built his own 'Elf 2J'-BMW (which F1R call Jabouille 2J-001). Larrousse drove the A367-BMW and won the first race he started in it. Jabouille also won one at the Salzburgring.

In 1976, the last of the A367s disappears from F2 and Jabouille's Ecurie Elf has three Elf 2Js. The F1R list them in the season index as 7602, 7603 and 7604 but also mention a 7601 at the opening race. However the race results just show 7602 and 7603 so there may have been just two 1976 cars. The cars now had Renault CH1B engines and were driven by Jabouille who won three races and the championship and Leclere who won two races.

In 1977, Kauhsen has a pair of 2J-Renaults, given as 7701 and 7702 by Motoring News at Thruxton. Leclare and Ludwig drove them and they were rubbish. One went out to the JAF GP at the end of the season.

In 1978, I can see a Kauhsen-Renault running in Japan and a 'A364'-Renault with Dieter Kern in Europe.

So it would seem that four A367s were built and then at least two Elf 2Js. The fourth of the A367s went into French hillclimbs but I can't account for the other three. If only two 2Js were built, then Drifty has accounted for both.

Allen

[driftwood]

I will mail u the foto of 1 2J car Im sure its allot monocooque not tue farme al la 367 ( ironically not mentioned in A-Z book hence my earlier f3 comment- the 367 car was probaby updated f3 tube chassis)
the other car was for sale 2003/4 and allegedly sold to man who runs f2 series i do not believe the car raced in the series but he is now indisposed for a while see may mail coming to u on this

at the same time Martini built a car with v6 reggie power

[Chris Townsend]

One of the Kauhsens [née Elf 2J] did three Atlantic races in South Africa at the start of 1978, driven by Len Booysen, and would you believe Derek Bell. It was fitted with a Richardson BDA. I'm guessing that this is not the car that went hillclimbing in Europe, so presumably the one that ended up in Japan.
It would be interesting to know more about this venture, which , as with most things Kauhsen and single seater, did not fare well; the best result, and only finish, being 6th.
The Kauhsens seem to have had their own chassis numbers. Noted by F1R at Silverstone were 7701 Ludwig [described by MN as Jabouille's 1976 car] and 7702 Leclère [described by MN as a brand new car] And while the Kauhsens became rubbish, don't forget that Leclère took pole at Silverstone with one. Perhaps the problem lay in misguided development and the ease with which Leclère and Ludwig lost interest if they weren't presented with perfect cars, not having the ability to sort them.
At Pau Leclère is in 7701 again called Jabouille's 76 car and the car used earlier by Ludwig by MN, while Ludwig is in what is called 'the latest car'

Chris

[driftwood]

i have an error on elf 2j to japan
it is in fact martini mk22
a picture paints 1000 words
but whats and elf or martini amongst friends

[allenbrown]

From 'the other place' and the excellent Michael Ferner:

Originally posted by fines
Kauhsen did indeed bring one of his Formula Two cars to the Suzuka Grand Prix in 1977 (Nov 6), to be driven by Jean-Pierre Jabouille, its original designer. But somehow Keke Rosberg ended up with the drive (#30), qualifying 3rd (1'57.83") but retiring on lap 3 (engine) out of 35. This was the last race of the season, and in the first race of 1978 (Mar 5), again at Suzuka, Keke was supposed to drive again, but got a call to drive the F1 Theodore/Ford at Kyalami, so Gianfranco Brancatelli qualified the car (#2) 4th and finished the race 5th. By this time, the car was already entered (and presumably owned) by the ex-patriate German Nico Nicole (Team Nicole Racing Japan), and Kauhsen was said to prepare the two 1977 Kojima/Ford KE009 for an entry into F1. Nothing became of the latter, but Nicole raced the F2 Kauhsen/Renault a couple of times, retiring (#7) at the Fuji Grand Prix (May 3) on lap 25 out of 35 and finishing 9th (#3) at the Suzuka Ruby Trophy (Jul 2), 11 laps in arrears! He then appeared in a Chevron/BMW B40 (possibly an ex-Tetsu Ikuzawa car) at the Suzuka Grand Prix before starting out on his own as a manufacturer (Niki/BMW, another failure). The Kauhsen/Renault appeared one more time, as a spare car (#96) for Masao Segawa (S&A Racing International) who had apparently crashed his Chevron/BMW B40 in practice for the 1979 Suzuka Ruby Trophy (Jul 1), but retired on lap 10 out of 30.

So that must be a different one to the car Chris mentions in South Africa.

Allen

[allenbrown]

By the way, the car that went French hillcimbing was an Alpine A367-BMW, not a 2J. Guy Fréquelin, being BP-backed, was at pains to point out that it was an Alpine, not an Elf. It debuted 18 July 1976 as far as I can see and was said to be ex-Larrousse, strongly implying it was A367/4 from 1975.

Fréquelin also mentioned that he bought it because it was the cheapest available and I can't believe a 2J would have been cheap in July 1976.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

So from having accounted for both Kauhsens at 11:30 this morning, a mere five and half hours later we seem to have lost both of them...
To paraphrase Lady Bracknell [that well known contributor to this forum]
"To lose one Kauhsen may be considered misfortune, to lose both seems like carelessness"

Chris

[Dan Rear]

To lose both is probably a good thing Chris I'd have thought!!

Heavens knows what Michel L thought in 1977, having gone so well with the same car in '76. Good old teutonic efficiency the year after... !

[Chris Townsend]

Dan
I think the answer is that in 1977 Leclère didn't have Jabouille to set the car up for him and do the testing.
However, you may well be right that the only good Kauhsen is a lost one...

Chris

[Todd Willing]

Didn't the Coombs Elfs (Alpines) have Hart BDAs?

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by Todd Willing

Didn't the Coombs Elfs (Alpines) have Hart BDAs?

As far as I can make up from the eddie Guba book they did indeed. (I should get some more annuals of this writer of other years, great info)

I do have a photo of the F3 alpine chassis, and it seems to be almost exactly the same as the F2.

Thanks for the great info! Really interesting. Sad to hear though that these car seem to have gone except for the one that was sold a few years ago.

[allenbrown]

They haven't gone. They'll be around somewhere.

[driftwood]

there will be a little frenchman somewhere with a dust cover over 1 of these cars since 1984 when it was last used
It will not be long before 1 or 2 cars are "found"

i was offered the Pygmee a few years ago
where have all the Ligier cars gone? Martini f2 and f1 cars?

The Matra LM cars sat in a private collection until 2 years ago then 1 man bought 2 of the cars to add to his 3 other cars

[kurtiejjj]

Maybe some new information on one of the alpines this site: http://www.eccehomo.cz/old_version/r.../res_1981.html
I quote:

1. 2 Dieter Kern / D Alpine Renault F2 7:18,480

No idea which type it was, that's going to be something for the experts round here. By the way look at all the other cars in the results, quite a few fascinating and forgotten cars on there, for instance I mean what's a Rex SP1? or a dangel 2000? I wish I could find one of those race it

[allenbrown]

There's more on Kern here.

Looks like a A367 to me but he did run a A364 in F3 in 1975.

Allen

[driftwood]

did u see Jauslin had 781/1 on the hillclimb results
i assume he bought the old aurora car
i bet he fitte dthe dfv form the lola t294 hu50 car he called 286 into teh 781
he was running alpine v6 in the lola by now allegedly he also had renault powered f2 car not sure if it was the 76 car

i am trying to communicate with him over sports car info

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

There's more on Kern here.

Looks like a A367 to me but he did run a A364 in F3 in 1975.

Allen

Any czech people on here? Could be some important info in there.

As I'm sure you have seen already, a lot of interesting info on here as well: http://www.research-racing.de/AlpineRenault.htm

Good to see things progressing.

[allenbrown]

Roman Krejci wrote that. He posts here as Euromontagne (or something like that).

Allen

[kurtiejjj]

I bumped into this today:

http://forums.autosport.com/showthre...postid=2647180

Very interesting stuff on there! It says a certain Theirry Gay had the an ex-jabouille V6 car in 1999.

[Euromontagna]

Unfortunatelly I am not good at Alpine Renault F2 history... but as about Dieter Kern you can see some his data here - http://www.euromontagna.com/driver.p...&id_driver=386, i would be interested in this photo (http://www.euromontagna.com/photo.ph...1982-06-20-001) which is taken in 1982 and describe as Alpine Renault chassis number 77 02/1977... the older years in ecce homo (78-81) Kern had the same car, maybe A364 as described somewhere....

[driftwood]

looking at the car it is an older chassis with the damper angle and front anti roll bar sticking out behind the slim nose
the bodywork is some Ground effect style nose and side pods and a later rear wing copying the ralt rt2 toleman styling

looking at the roll hoop of all the photos you can see it is the sam unusual shape wide at tub narrow at top

[kurtiejjj]

That car is the 1977 Elf 2 but with different bodywork, so not an a364. Just take a look at the front suspension and renault V6 engine in the back, chassis is wider than the one of the a364