Red Bull - No Bull

Glen · 6 Mar 2005, 17:45 (Ref:1244696)

OK - I'll be quick to admit it - I am very impressed with the competitiveness of the ex Jaguar team. It really is a massive change of fortune for them, and quite hard to believe, but the results don't lie - they were pretty decent. In a less jumbled-up race they won't be quite so well off, I guess, but they look better than they have any right to, so all credit it to them.

Super Tourer · 6 Mar 2005, 17:51 (Ref:1244700)

Well done Glen - my humblie pie is back in the freezer - for the moment

Happy for DC, he looks very relaxed and despite is past doubters (me included I might add) he drove well.

**dtype38** · 6 Mar 2005, 17:51 (Ref:1244701)

How sweet was it that DC beat both of the McLarens

He also did a very good job of keeping a straight face and not sticking any fingers up at RD in the post race interview

Glen · 6 Mar 2005, 18:07 (Ref:1244715)

Hey ST, I've just served myself up a small piece of that pie - I'd like to see a "standard" race before I think about eating the whole thing. Webber was clearly stuck behind DC for quite a while, and probably could have gone faster - but it is a race and that's what is all about... all-in-all, massively impressive and very hard to understand - it just isn't possible on paper to gain that much speed more or less overnight.

ralf fan · 6 Mar 2005, 18:14 (Ref:1244718)

I had predicted them to be worse off than the old Jag...and DC to flounder....

Canberra>karter · 6 Mar 2005, 18:17 (Ref:1244725)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

Hey ST, I've just served myself up a small piece of that pie - I'd like to see a "standard" race before I think about eating the whole thing. Webber was clearly stuck behind DC for quite a while, and probably could have gone faster - but it is a race and that's what is all about... all-in-all, massively impressive and very hard to understand - it just isn't possible on paper to gain that much speed more or less overnight.

But it is done all the time, Webber was in fifth place during the race last year after a dry qual at Melbourne. The problem for Jag came mid year, lack of resources saw chassis developement slow. Also you do remember Webber beating the Williams last year. RBR was impressive but they are just following form, they still need to prove they can be relatively as fast near the end of the year.

Glen · 6 Mar 2005, 18:24 (Ref:1244736)

What surprises me I guess is that they have managed to build even through all the team ownership turmoil. All through the winter, and in the latter part of last season in fact, the other teams have had a great chance and a lot more money to get on with moving ahead of RBR, but they haven't done so, not to anything like the degree I expected.

Inigo Montoya · 6 Mar 2005, 18:31 (Ref:1244750)

If you look at the fastest laps of the race, they were a second behind the Renaults, and behind the Ferraris, Williams, Macs, and even one of the Toyotas... But they were consistent on a heavy fuel load... Well done!!

Knowlesy · 6 Mar 2005, 18:38 (Ref:1244760)

Well I was in much the same boat as Glen......I thought RBR would be awful.

But this new car is genuinely good and they obviously have a great bunch of lads who kept their heads down through all the turmoil. Very admirable.

However, they will get a reality check in Malaysia and i think they'll settle down to a role of top ten regular and regular points contender with the odd standout result like today.

I still don't agree with a lot of things that have gone on at RBR either and I think we have to wait until next season before we can really judge the changes. For me, the current performance is the combination of a talented jaguar team that was on the rise and the long term security of Red Bull ownership.

BootsOntheSide · 6 Mar 2005, 18:41 (Ref:1244765)

I was predicting about 10 points for them pre-season, and it's fair to say that they're lucky to have got so many today. But it wasn't entirely a fluke, they generally showed mroe pace than BAR, Toyota and Sauber, and should be good enough to scoop up points when a few of the top cars drop out or circumstances work out for them as they did today. Unlike last year's Jaguar, the car doesn't seem to flatter to decieve in terms of single lap pace, they've managed to hold the car's performance for longer.

Fan · 6 Mar 2005, 19:09 (Ref:1244794)

I don't think it was luck at all. Coulthard showed pace throughout the weekend proving everyone, (NOT ME) who said he was past it, wrong...

listernoble · 6 Mar 2005, 19:17 (Ref:1244804)

I'm not a great fan of F1 as it is so often processional ,but thought todays effort was exciting and unpredictable.
The great unknown was the weather and if there had been a steady weather pattern through qualifying,and the usual cars ended on the poles,I wonder what the outcome would have been then?
It looks to be an intersting season and I actually look forward to next race.
great to see Red Bull/Jaguar/Ford doing so well and good luck to them.
Lister

P.Cummins · 6 Mar 2005, 19:43 (Ref:1244835)

Well, DC beat both McLarens.
Klien is did a lot better than he did in his Jag.
The car was quite quick through all of practice and quali.
It seems to be quite reliable and easy to drive.
IMO, it looks great (......and now there will be a flood of disagreements for that I know)

There a bunch of positive things from my point of view. I hope they continue to do well. 3rd in constructors and there is room for more improvment.

+Red Bull tastes lovely IMO

pitcrew · 6 Mar 2005, 19:54 (Ref:1244846)

DC drove a good race qualifing obviously helped!! but ther ex jags were faster with there new power unit, but if they had started lower down the grid im not quite sure they would have been able to keep up with williams if it was the other way round. but good show.

topwelshman · 6 Mar 2005, 20:13 (Ref:1244873)

The weather had alot to do with it but hey, that's racing. It was good to see & I hope DC stays in top half

joe rossi · 6 Mar 2005, 21:47 (Ref:1244993)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fan

I don't think it was luck at all. Coulthard showed pace throughout the weekend proving everyone, (NOT ME) who said he was past it, wrong...

well said mate and well done DC, proving my faith in him was not misplaced!

Also all those comments about low fuel runs in testing should now be retracted, eh Rennen?

GP Racer · 6 Mar 2005, 22:31 (Ref:1245038)

I find myself rooting hard for this team to succeed, simply because of all the things that Red Bull does for racing everywhere. You simply cannot watch any series these days without seeing Red Bull supporting it in some way. They have been huge for the sport of motor racing, and they deserve to get the rewards from it.

I'm also a DC backer, because he is one of the good guys in the sport, a hard working team player that after all of those years at McLaren, he may have finally found what he's been looking for in the Red Bull team.

Ride on Red Bull!

P.Cummins · 6 Mar 2005, 22:55 (Ref:1245059)

He does seem very comfortable with the team but I cant help but think that other peoples mis fortune paid a big part in it. He was indeed on the pace, but a different kind of pace.

He was good at keeping the lads behind at bay but I couldnt imagine him being much good at catching them from behind. Of course, I might be proven wrong very soon and I am really hoping I will.

enemy-ace · 6 Mar 2005, 23:45 (Ref:1245091)

Klien did well as well. The pace of the car is good. The Jag last year was a good car that just suffered because it wasn't developed. Remember that the Jag team kept working on their '05 contender whilst looking for a buyer. Obviously their work wasn't just for show. It makes me feel somewhat better (being a former Jag supporter) that the team's efforts are coming to fruition even if it is under a different guise. Jag gave RedBull a good car, now it's up to RBR to develop it.
I still think dumping Pitchforth and Purnell was foolish. Hiring Coulthard was not.

OT somebody needs to talk to Liuzzi about his mullet.

JohnSSC · 7 Mar 2005, 01:25 (Ref:1245138)

"JohnSSC looks in the freezer for a scoop of ice cream to put on his slice of Humble Pie."

During the repast, he decides to post the following:

Glen, I suggest Strawberry ice cream - it helps immeasurably in my case at least to make the dessert more palatable!

Yes, it is time once again to apologize to all and sundry regarding all of the insightful posts I have made regarding Jaguar (now RBR) and their ineptitude. Perhaps all they really needed was stability at the top in order to get results. I hope for competition sake that they are able to continue the trend and show well in the remaining races.

I had to do this in the case of BAR last season and now find myself pleased to do so again.

I am of course having a serving of Crow in response to seeing DC demonstrate that he is more focused now than he has been and his career seems to have taken a decide "up" note with RBR.

RWC · 7 Mar 2005, 02:29 (Ref:1245175)

stability (and a great engine) do indeed seem to be the best things to happen to 'jaguar'

On a related note i see that some are worried when they see red bull still sacking staff.This is not a problem!
There were inevitably going to be some 'politically' motivated staff choices by jaguar so they'll obviously have to trim those that aren't real racers.I'm actually surprised that there aren't many more!
They are doing VERY well with so few changes-nicely done

I have doubts about their ability to continuously develop the car and engine and dc was abit lucky in this race but all in all they can be seriously proud of what they've acomplished so far.

P.Cummins · 7 Mar 2005, 08:16 (Ref:1245279)

OK, with one very interesting race behind, let me ask then: How do you think they will fare in Malaysia?

Kicking-back · 7 Mar 2005, 08:27 (Ref:1245288)

Qualifying around the 10th-12th mark with a run through to 7th/8th in the race, behind Renault, McLaren and Ferrari.

Dutton · 7 Mar 2005, 09:13 (Ref:1245336)

Where do you place Williams?

For the great majority of pre-season I too had RBR down as going to suck, but then near the start of the season PH/FW started talking in glowing terms about RBR for the initial rounds. That got me wavering and uncertain, for one can never be too sure how much is genuine thoughts and how much playing games. Williams tend to tell it like it is however, so come the race weekend I was expecting them to do a fair bit better than I had initially thought.

Given that I had been thinking they would be rather dire, I was newly pondering more midfield (12th-ish) than what they produced. There were intervening factors though in Australia, and in races to come it would seem likely that they will be more likely top-end midfield knocking on the door of low-end points.

All credit to DC, he did a remarkably good job. I was not expecting quite so determined a showing. It was only one race though, and somewhat opportunistic at that, so time will tell.

Ford must be rather frustrated.......

Glen · 7 Mar 2005, 09:16 (Ref:1245343)

I don't think I was that far out, in fairness (not that I expect anybody to be fair to me!) - like most folk on here I still think somewhere in the mid-field is as good as they can expect most of the time... I'll lay the same "bet" for Sepang as I did for Melbourne - something like half a second adrift in quali and three or more places in the race (best RBR driver vs best williams driver).

God - I'm a sucker for it!

What I won't bet on for a while is Red Bull getting beaten by Toyota - I'm pretty sure that will come by about mid-season, but for now I am impressed enough to hold back on that one.

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