[Official] Saudi Arabian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 21 of 22

[Born Racer]

As the climax of the ferociously-fought Formula 1 drivers' and constructors' championships approaches, a battle which has seen seven-time world champion Lewis Hamilton and the (still) young pretender to the throne Max Verstappen rise to the peak of their craft almost race-in, race-out, Saudi Arabia has the honour of playing host to this fight for the crown in its own kingdom.

In running a night race, the brand new Jeddah street circuit becomes the fourth track to stage a full F1 night race after Marina Bay, Sakhir and Losail, the latter just a fortnight ago. It acts as the second in this year's Middle Eastern triplet of season-closing Grands Prix, before Abu Dhabi brings down the curtain on an extraordinary year.

The history

Saudi Arabia has little motorsport history, although there is a push to change this in many forms now, including big sponsorship deals, such as Aramco's. In the late 1970s, the late Sir Frank Williams, who will be much mourned this weekend after his death less than a week ago, secured Saudi sponsorship. The Race of Champions took place in Saudi Arabia in 2018, while the Diriyah ePrix Formula E race has been run three times so far on the Riyadh Street Circuit, and Extreme E off-road racing was held in the country in April of this year.

In 2019, it was announced that a Qiddiya motorsport complex would be developed for the entertainment hub in Riyadh, and it is anticipated that a Grand Prix will be staged there at some point. In the meantime, Jeddah has stepped forward. Situated on the Corniche, a coastal area by the Red Sea, the track is composed of a whopping 27 corners near the waterfront, although many of these are fast kinks, rather than big turns per se.

The track

Jeddah has a lot of muscle when it comes to challenging the statistics. It is thought to be about to become the second-fastest circuit, with simulations anticipating an average speed of 252.8km/h (11.6km/h slower than Monza, but just edging Silverstone), while it will become the fastest F1 street circuit ever (Albert Park has an average speed of around 237km/h and Baku 215).

It will also be the longest street circuit in use recently, at just over 6km, pipping Baku, and the second-longest track in F1, a kilometre shorter than Spa.



Turns 1 and 2 are made of of a chicane including a 90-degree left, followed by a right, maybe taken in 2nd gear, before and the left-hand kink at Turn 3. Turns 4 and 5 are fast left and right-handers, 5th or possibly 6th gear ones. The semi-circular Turn 5 is followed by a similar shape but in mirror image at Turns 6 and 7. Turns 8, 9 and 10 are fast and gentle turns, probably taken between 250 and 260kmh. The drivers will just shuffle through 11 and 12 before the big banking at 13, a fast and long hairpin, not falling below 140km/h or 3rd gear.

After the fast sweepers of 14 and 15, the right-left sequence of Turns 16 and 17 looks mighty, driven at around 200km/h and in 5th gear before immediately getting detection for the first of three DRS zones. After the slight kinks of 18, 19 and 20, we have DRS Zone 1, immediately chased by DRS Detection Zone 2 and the quick Turns 22, 23 and 24, before the long Turn 25, whose curvature levels off into Turn 26 (all this in DRS Zone 2) before the hairpin at Turn 27, one of the slowest turns on the track, tackled in 2nd or maybe nudging 3rd gear, with DRS Detection Zone 3 just before it and DRS activation on the start-finish straight.

Other information

Circuit length: 6.174km
Number of laps: 50
Race distance: 308.45km
Dry weather tyre compounds: C2, C3 & C4
Race lap record: n/a

First Grand Prix at this circuit: 2021
First Saudi Arabian Grand Prix: 2021

Join the fun in the Predictions Contest and Fantasy F1:

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156703

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156053

[porsche962fan]

the permutations are misisng in which scenarios Max gets the title here

[E.B]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

the permutations are misisng in which scenarios Max gets the title here

[porsche962fan]

so let's hope the "grenade" Mercedes unit holds out for this weekend and Hamilton can get another win for a real showdown

[chillibowl]

Ideally I would like to see the points gap reduce here and then it go to the last race with both starting at the back with new engines.

[BTCC frog]

To be honest, I am not at all impressed with the running of the Saudi Arabian GP this weekend. Obviously the first reason for this is the human rights problems that Hamilton and others have spoken up against. It is very disappointing to hear Domenicali claiming that F1 going there will improve the situation, when not going would be far better as the leaders of the country would see that they have to improve human rights if they want large events like a Grand Prix. Clearly it is just about the money. And the second reason to be concerned about the race is that I am just not very confident about the safety of the track. Having seen computer simulated laps of it, it looks extremely fast, but with walls so close the likelihood of a high-speed crash, and another car colliding with the crashed car, seems too high. And the fact that it has only been approved the day before practice is considerably more worrying. Had it been approved months ago, preferably before the race was confirmed on the calendar, that would be convincing that it had been properly checked, but leaving it so late makes it seem like a close call, and with the financial loss of cancelling the race now F1 may be more inclined to give the race the go-ahead in a situation like this. Obviously, the counter to this is that they didn’t try to race in Spa, but that was very clearly too dangerous. Given that the track isn’t even exciting anyway, I think it is very obvious that money is the only motivation for this Grand Prix, and it saddens me that Liberty’s intentions have turned out to be no different to Bernie Ecclestone’s, when they initially seemed to be such an improvement. Hopefully I will be wrong and the track will be fine, but I would prefer for this race not to be taking place.

But, on the positive side, if Lewis Hamilton wins and takes fastest lap, and Max Verstappen finishes second, they will go into Abu Dhabi level on points. The last time the championship contenders were level on points going into the final race was 1974, with Emerson Fittipaldi and Clay Regazzoni. The prediction competition should be interesting here as well. With 23 points to make up and only two races to do it in, I will have to go with something unusual and different to my title rivals to have a genuine chance of winning that t-shirt.

[skycafe]

Having seen an on-the-roof video of a safety car doing a lap...dreadful circuit.

[porsche962fan]

this tracks reminds me of american street circuits and I don't see any real passing point !!! it will be a pit stop strategy race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBYuy-rBL60


play the video at 1.75 speed and you get a good idea about F1 on it !!

[crmalcolm]

Looks a bit like racing at Monaco, but on a wider, faster track with a couple of overtaking points.

As a circuit, promising so far.

[porsche962fan]

where do you see passing points ?? cos frankly everywhere is too easy to block

[Skam85]

If this race is going to be anything like the video game version it could be carnage. It's fast everywhere with walls everywhere.

[sizzle]

In Qatar they were not happy the marshalls were on the ball.

This week they want them to be.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/sa...risks/6843356/

Mind you after watching the safety car lap they will have to be.
The potential for a lot of carnage is pretty high I feel.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

where do you see passing points ?? cos frankly everywhere is too easy to block

T1, T13 and T27.

[chunterer]

Looks very narrow as well? 3 DRS zones being needed says it all about passing opportunities.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Ideally I would like to see the points gap reduce here and then it go to the last race with both starting at the back with new engines.

Although I do have my favourite to win the championship, I would like to see this too, it would be a fitting end to the season.

[Purist]

The camera on the safety car being much higher up makes it look narrower. Having barriers right there also has the same effect. I'm sure it meets the minimum required 12-meter width all the way around, and it wouldn't surprise me looking at it that the starting grid is actually the recommended 15 meters wide.

Think about it. The front straight at Indianapolis looks quite narrow, too.

I think a lot will depend on grip level. If fewer of those corners are totally flat, it really opens up some interesting possibilities, especially through and coming out of that rhythm section (T4-10).

T1, 13, and 27 are definite overtaking points, especially with that banked carousel creating the potential for outside moves in 13. If someone gets a better launch out of T2, they have a shot into T4. T16 and 22 are substantial braking zones as well.

Keep in mind, as the outright speed increases, the same reduction in mph/kph results in much greater energy reduction, much more braking effort. There's a big difference between braking from 200 down to 125 as compared to 150 down to 75.

Baku has several high-speed bends with walls right there. Melbourne and Montreal, too, have high-speed stretches that aren't exactly straight with walls very close or right there at the edge of the road. Monaco has the run up to Massenet, the Tunnel, Tabac, and Piscine, plus a Pit Straight that isn't straight. There's a wall right there on the outside along the front stretch at Interlagos. I could go on.

So I'm inclined to think quite a bit of this is being blown out of proportion.

I can't say I find the track to look "boring", and it doesn't hurt when the surroundings are close enough you can actually see them.

American street circuits cover quite a wide range. Indy Cars, which are notably slower than F1, still run plenty quick at a number of them. Every such circuit currently in that series has a record Pole Lap average of better than 105 mph. They all also have decent overtaking zones.

It doesn't mean much. They put DRS zones on just about every straight or "straight" of any substantial length, regardless of the circuit.

I want at least some of the hopeless inevitability with Hamilton to get nipped in the bud. I mean, him, Jimmie Johnson, Michael Schumacher, it could feel like the Three Fates themselves were on their side.

Anyway, I figure this track may favor the fearless Max.

[steve_r]

Is there going to be any official Tribute to Frank Williams before the race?

I am hoping for a clean championship fight, that will be decided on track and not by a dirty move or some weird appeals over rear wings or fruity engines.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Looks very narrow as well? 3 DRS zones being needed says it all about passing opportunities.

I think it has come around differently. The track was designed to allow 'up to' three DRS zones, and whether they choose to use them is a decision each time they visit.
The DRS zones have also been designed differently - two of them are on curves, so not expected to offer a simple drive past, but allow a car to close sufficiently ahead of a braking zone.

Am I putting a positive spin on this? Yes. I'll wait to see what happens before condemning this circuit as being worse than Monaco for F1 racing.

In terms of width - I think there is a perception issue here. The track is between 10 and 15 metres wide - standard for F1.
Baku is only 7.6 metres in parts, and Monaco, Singapore and Australia are all narrower circuits.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Purist

The camera on the safety car being much higher up makes it look narrower. Having barriers right there also has the same effect. I'm sure it meets the minimum required 12-meter width all the way around, and it wouldn't surprise me looking at it that the starting grid is actually the recommended 15 meters wide.

Yes - although it does drop to 10 metres at some points.

I am struck by how much F1 circuits are 'damned if they do, dammed if thy don't'

Purpose-built circuits - "Too much run-off, track limits are abused. - We need proper barriers to keep the drivers under control"
Street circuits - "The track is surrounded by barriers, there is going to be carnage"

[S griffin]

The opening few corners look very similar to the original Marrakech street circuit.

I agree with those saying that this event is not helping the human rights issues here. That said well done Vettel for organising a women only kart event

[crmalcolm]

Just to clarify on the width point, in comparison to other circuits where (AFAIK) there have been no criticisms of the tracks being too narrow:

Jeddah - 10-15 metres wide. Including FIA minimum requirements for start/finish straight and T1 width.

Spa, Catalunya, Paul Ricard - 12-15 metres.
Red Bull Ring, Zandvoort - 13 metres.
Hungaroring - 14 metres.
Hockenheim, Imola, Portimao - 15 metres.

[john ruston]

So with the posts so far only one has mentioned or made a point of discussion the nonsense of being anywhere near the place.
Shows the myopic nature of most people on here.
In the grand scheme of things F1 is not important and it seems only Hamilton along with Seb has the balls to point out the stupidity of F1 holding a Race in Saudi.
A tribute to Frank Williams in Saudi,what a crazy suggestion!
He was a pivotable figure in F1 and it would be laughable to do anything other than to go round in circles then get out of the place.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by john ruston

So with the posts so far only one has mentioned or made a point of discussion the nonsense of being anywhere near the place.
Shows the myopic nature of most people on here.

I think that is because the discussion in this thread is concentrating on the on-track activity, as opposed to the wider context of the location.
There has been plenty of discussion regarding the morality of locations in the wider Future Grands Prix Thread. Surely better to keep it all in one place and let the conversation here remain about the race as a sporting contest?

[john ruston]

The sporting contest cannot be divorced from the setting in which it’s being held?
It’s sporting whitewash and this discussion and your comments prove the point?

[Adam43]

It’s being discussed. And we are going to allow the on track action to be discussed also.

You bring up a very important topic, one which is mentioned a fair amount round here (a Motorsport forum). The future GP thread as an example.

Unfortunately, quite often it is used to make a different point. Often it is mentioned to make a point against a driver rather than the actual topic. And your post is mainly to make a point against posters, rather than the actual inequality and injustice that is present in the world.

Perhaps, a new thread in parc ferme, should be started to discuss this important topic. Feel free. Let’s discuss the actual topic though. Perhaps trying to educate ourselves more on that part of the world, or actually discussing whether F1 (or other sports) presence helps draw attention or gives tactic approvals to such inequalities. It isn’t a simple situation.

Whether F1 should be there is perfect for the future GP thread (as it is already discussed there). Any more general discussion is more suited to a new thread.

And it is allowed to discuss the race weekend action here.