Volvo S60-R

[gttouring]

the Volvo is taking on cadillac and AudiRs6's and the myriad of porsche and viper challengers
his weekend at Road America!
the thing is 4 wheel drive turbo
this is shaping the Speed GT class into a super touring crazy door banger of a series.
http://www.motorsportvortex.com/news...cle_5023.shtml

[alfasud]

Hmmmm.... a 4-door touring car. So presisely why is this in the Sports-GT forum?

[Fogelhund]

Originally posted by alfasud
Hmmmm.... a 4-door touring car. So presisely why is this in the Sports-GT forum?

Because its racing in the Speed World Challenge GT series.

This constant business about touring cars vs. sports/gt cars is almost as "new" as the GrandAm vs. ALMS bits.

[Kicking-back]

Farcical!

[Pilgrimage]

Anything Derek Bell is driving gets my support as a matter of course.
Good to see him back behind the wheel.

[Aysedasi]

Now you're all really trying to wind me up, aren't you? Lets get serious here, for chrissakes.......

[Aysedasi]

Originally posted by Fogelhund
Because its racing in the Speed World Challenge GT series.

This constant business about touring cars vs. sports/gt cars is almost as "new" as the GrandAm vs. ALMS bits.

As are the responses of those who want to see cars which are clearly not sports cars racing in GT series'.......

[gttouring]

well it is the Speed GT series
the AudiRS6 is a big 4 door as is the caddy http://www.highresautoimages.com/160...lac/ctsvr.html
these are the cars as the 2 door M3GTR has before blurred the touring car/GT line
and made a supertouring or whatever Gt type class
they kinda are like V8 supercars, and DTM racers, which are touring cars, but are so tube sub-framed and such that they aren't touring in the BTCC/ Super 2000/super production touring car regs.
after all the cadillac and audi's have handed it to the corvettes, vipers, and porsches time and again.

BUt this is not the point
isn't it a nifty racer?
and what does this say for the firelds in Speed GT
Corvette. BMW. Porsche. Viper, Saleen, Audi, Cadillac, Pontiac/Holden Monaro/GTO.
big field and great participation of the marques.

[billnchristy]

I might be silly, but i view touring and gt cars as more of a HP limit than car type. If its got 500+ HP chances are its a GT. If its in the 250-350 class, touring...DTM cars are a little different that theyre close to GTs...oh well, it doesnt hurt too bad to be different...!!

(by that account, i do consider V8 supercars more GT than touring...but maybe more "stock car" than GT...in the traditional sense)

[alfasud]

In the old days..... a "Grand Touring" car was considered to be a car suitable for a "Grand Tour" of Europe. It had to able to swiftly carry it's driver and companion in style, speed and comfort across a continent - this implied a certain minmum performance level - a Cortina GT would not count..... despite what the badge might say, but didn't preclude cars with more than two doors.

These days when we have "Touring" cars and "Grand Touring" cars, we tend to consider that a touring car must offer a certain capacity for carrying 4 or more occpants.

In the early 1970's, the FIA determined that cars without sufficient rear seat room were not Group 2 touring cars but could race in Group 3 and Group 4 (GT).

This prevented the Porsche 911 beng raced as a "Touring" car, but it was homolgated into Group 3 and Group 4 as a GT. Alfa Romeo found that if they offered a lower rear seat squab in their Gulia GTA and GTAm, it had enough seat room to be a touring car.... and a GT too, so they could homolgate it in Group 2 and Group 4.

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/Pages/part3.html

So now we have a new definition.... if you can consider the 1970's to be new.... touring cars must make a certain accomadation for passengers..... while GT cars don't. These days, it's generally considered that if the car has too much accomadation for rear seat passengers..... at the expense of performance (and some would argue style), then it's a touring car, but not a Grand Touring car.

Now back to the Volvo. I don't have a problem with cars like this racing against GT's, but what I do have a problem with, is if they are given special considerations (allowable modifications not found on the production car) to help them compete against the GT's, then that distorts the whole concept of GT racing, by making the non-GT's faster than they should be, to the disadvantage of the "proper" GT's.

Same with the M3 GTR - let them race the production based M3 - if it can't keep up with the "proper" GT's then too bad.

[alfasud]

By the way..... I noticed Frank de Jong's ETTC History pages have a new page.... "Touring cars in Sportscar Races".

http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jong/index.html

What a fun topic.

[Carse]

TOURING CAR!

[429CJ]

You can't use four wheel drive and/or turbocharger on touring car racing anymore, so where should these type of cars race anyhow?

[Carse]

What about the Lambo in GTS? Isn't that 4 wheel drive or did they just make it rear wheel drive for racing?

[gwyllion]

Originally posted by Carse
What about the Lambo in GTS? Isn't that 4 wheel drive or did they just make it rear wheel drive for racing?

Idd, they changed to RWD for racing.

[alfasud]

Originally posted by 429CJ
You can't use four wheel drive and/or turbocharger on touring car racing anymore, so where should these type of cars race anyhow?

WRC