Radio comms at race circuits

[Teletubby]

I would like to say that the GP has prompted me to comment about how well the communications work at Silverstone, not just for the GP but for every meeting. Pam does a fantastic job and, as a radio user at the events that I attend, it makes a huge difference! Di Hardy is just as good at Donington but other than these two ladies I really can't think of anywhere else that even comes close! And some places are absolutely dire, poor radio procedure, the need to try to inject 'hilarious' remarks and lack of control really wind me up. I get really really irritated when a Rescue Unit is scrambled to an incident and then, upon arrival, when you want to talk to control they are busy arranging breakdowns! I appreciate the need to get things moving but at least wait for an update before pressing on just in case assistance is required at the scene. Meetings at Silverstone and Donington flow really well and yet you never have to wait for 'Breakdown 2' to finish rambling before you can get through!

/Rant over.

[Mark Mitchell]

I'd like to echo those comments and also say that Oulton has a brilliant Radio Controller in Geoff.
All messages are delivered in a very clear, concise way and he has a very professional attitude towards the role.

We mustn't forget either, that the radio people not only do talkie bits......they have to write down everything that is received by them. Not easy!

[SRPhoto]

[Paul Newns]

I echo Mark's comment. Oulton and Anglesey have excellant radio procedures thanks to Geoff's very professional approach. He took on the role with the demise of Ken Finney, another excellant radio control.

[racerkeke]

Are communications at Silverstone really radio, or are they landline?

Shhh, Stoo...

keke

[Stoowert]

Radios? Shurley schum mystake! Who's got time to listen to the radio when fighting with the phones?

I don't know what Oulton's like, but the two circuits singled out for praise are dead easy to cover with radios, either flat & open or a natural bowl. At Brands, if we were trusted with radios, would have several dead spots: Post 11 for example. Now, if we had a land line...

...Keke, it IS a radio network at Silverstone. Radios for the IOs (our version of Corner Captain) and lousy old phones for the Observers. Oh yes, it works!

[Red Baron]

Teletuby, I agree with all of your comments, as you well know. So many times we sit waiting to see if we are needed at an incident and all we here is Control arranging breakdowns.

I have to say that one of the worst offenders (IMHO) is the crossroads at Brands. This is no reflection on the marshals working it of course, but why oh why are they on the emergency frequency????

It's not only the unnecessary chit chat on the radio or arranging breakdowns etc that winds me up. How many people really use proper radio procedures? Not many I assure you and that goes for people in Control and on the other end.

I know that Control is really busy; we did a session at training this year that wa aimed at teaching us radio procedures and during that one of us had to act as Control. Even that exercise made me realise just how many things Control have to think about; even so, there are proper ways to use a radio.

I agree that Silverstone and Donington are fine examples and events always seem to run smoothly at both venues.

Just goes to show that you need a woman in charge

Rosie

[Dean Watson]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

It's not only the unnecessary chit chat on the radio or arranging breakdowns etc that winds me up. How many people really use proper radio procedures? Not many I assure you and that goes for people in Control and on the other end.




Rosie

not wishing to cause offense or sound negative.

How many people are trained with the proper procedures? Not many

There is not enough time at training sessions for it to be incorporated properly. We are all volunteers from varied backgrounds so perfect radio use cannot be expected. maybe if all who are handed a radio in the mornig are taken to one side and briefed on procedure this could help.

[racerkeke]

Originally Posted by Stoowert

...Keke, it IS a radio network at Silverstone. Radios for the IOs (our version of Corner Captain) and lousy old phones for the Observers. Oh yes, it works!

Isn't that a security problem? I mean, anyone with a scanner can listen in on radio transmissions. Or aren't the IO's saying anything someone would be interested in eavesdropping on? (g,d,r)

keke

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by deanowat1

not wishing to cause offense or sound negative.

How many people are trained with the proper procedures? Not many

There is not enough time at training sessions for it to be incorporated properly. We are all volunteers from varied backgrounds so perfect radio use cannot be expected. maybe if all who are handed a radio in the mornig are taken to one side and briefed on procedure this could help.

I disagree with you when you say that it can not be covered at training. I know that BARC, certainly at Thruxton, ran a 'radio use' session during the annual training session at the begining of the year and we also had one at rescue training. It was very informative and certainly makes me think before I speak over the radio.

I don't think anyone expects perfection but correct procedures do not take that much time to teach, in fact you can learn a lot by listening to others. Correct terminology could be covered in a hand out and in fact I am sure I have seen it written in The Marshal or other such publication. It doesn't have to be a time consuming activity.

I do expect the people in Race Control to use correct procedures though, there is no excuse for them not to know what they're doing!!!

Rosie

[CombeMarshal]

Trouble with radios is they go down far to often so it is very risky to rely on just them!

[mc1arke]

Knockhill is another circuit with excellent radio procedures - IMHO radios shouldn't be a security problem as not accident information is given out over the air (apart from 'Side to Side collision between X and X') and any major incidents just require a request for a rescue unit.

[DarrellB]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

Trouble with radios is they go down far to often so it is very risky to rely on just them!

Never seems much of a problem at the two circuits mentioned in the first post.

The beauty of the Silverstone set up is that the emergency channel is just that and only has the incident team using it, so minimises traffic and excess chat. Plus Pam is very disciplined and calm whatever the situation. (even when I missed the first call for an incident on Sunday)

Breakdowns are on separate radios and observers report via landline. The only problem with this is it restricts the observer to one location and prevents them from moving for a better view or linking up with other members of the team.

Donington has more radio users on one channel but is again controlled with good discipline, minimising chat. The only problem I find at Donny is that all radio users use DeltaXno. callsigns and it is easy to switch off to. From a rescue point of view it is good to use a rescue callsign which helps get the attention. Again the obs are on landline and this helps minimise excess chatter but has similar issues as those at Silverstone, though some of those are in more remote locations.

Other circuits have the problem that the observers are on the emergency radio channel and this can tie it up with excess communications. The need to keep messages concise and to the point has to be emphasised. Often this isn't helped by poor dicipline from race control allowing chatter to continue and not controlling the radio users.

Another pet hat is when control feels the need to give detailed instructions to radio users, typically breakdowns. All they need to do is tell them a where the recovery is needed to go, they should then be competent enough to deal with it without further instruction. A fine example happened earlier in the year when the recovery driver got so fed up he asked control if he wanted to come down and drive the lorry himself!

I will try to fit in more radio training sessions at next years Thruxton training to try and allow everyone to get some basic training on procedure and use.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Red Baron

in fact you can learn a lot by listening to others

Which is fine if you're able to hear others. At circuits the user will usually be on headphones (with good reason) and even if not the radio would probably not be audible to anyone not standing immediately next to the user. So you're fine if sufficient trained users can be there. With declining numbers that's often not the case, so your user will be someone who's been given it for this week-end. I know on user at a circuit who, when required to call for a red flag, realized he'd never even heard a red flag called on a circuit...

Of course, with landlines, there's always a spare set, so while the primary user is using, a second person can be learning...

[PVDA]

When scanners first appeared and became cheap enough for many of us in Victoria to obtain most of us saw them as a tool to keep an ear on what was going on. They can also be used as a learning tool for newbies without the risk of them transmitting anything.

Many senior marshals looked at having a radio as a status symbol and looked down on those of us with scanners and tried to get them banned. Funny thing is one sector marshal used to berate me for having a scanner until one event when he had a run of "SittingOnHisPTTbuttonItis" and after the forth dose and me yelling a warning at him the Race Controller told him "Yes, Paul's right, you are sitting on your button again" Strangely enough his opinion changed after that weekend.

[Richard Sneader]

I ran radio control as Chief IO on my own for the first time at AMOC Snett a couple of weeks ago. I learnt alot from doing this and know I can improve my RP procedures a bit. I have now seen it from both ends and it is not easy to do. I think one possible problem is lack of use of radios for alot of people and then 1 day a radio is thrust into your hand. Training I agree Darrol can be done but like anything if you do not do it for a while you forget things. For Brands Barry Morris does an excellent job and My Hex did a top job for BARC in my opinion. Shame he was replaced.
RS.

[CombeMarshal]

Originally Posted by DarrellB

Never seems much of a problem at the two circuits mentioned in the first post.

Like the duff headset that needed replacing on our post!

[DarrellB]

Originally Posted by CombeMarshal

Like the duff headset that needed replacing on our post!

Wasn't a complete failure though and was replaced without problem.

With reference to Rosie's comment about learning by listening. I think she meant listening in whilst actually using the radio. Listen to how things are communicated. There is a problem that bad habits can be picked up this way as well and therefore we will need more training.

It is difficult to provide radio training to everyone but everyone who attended this years Thruxton training had ago with radios and more is planned for next year.

There is nothing stopping anyone asking how to use a radio if they are at all unsure but who does?

[CombeMarshal]

not a problem, unless it goes down 2 mins into a race!

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by DarrellB

Never seems much of a problem at the two circuits mentioned in the first post.

The beauty of the Silverstone set up is that the emergency channel is just that and only has the incident team using it, so minimises traffic and excess chat. Plus Pam is very disciplined and calm whatever the situation. (even when I missed the first call for an incident on Sunday)

And you get the one of the F1 teams trampling all over it... I think Heidfield was on the main channel & Nico was on the sendry channel...

[Red Baron]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Which is fine if you're able to hear others. At circuits the user will usually be on headphones (with good reason) and even if not the radio would probably not be audible to anyone not standing immediately next to the user. ...

Yep that's a fair comment Woolley; it is easier for us all to hear the radio whilst sat in the rescue unit. I do see a number of people with scanners though so that is a mechanism for some people to listen and learn.


Rich Sneader - agreed, I thought Andrew Hext did a good job as well.

Rosie