Porsche in LMP1!?

[Dario911]

The italian magazine Autosprint has published a new about the return of the Porsche in LMP1 class, with a new prototype based (but this is just a supposition) on the RS Spyder, according to the future rules. Following the article, this new is for sure, and at Weissach are working on the future engine: petrol V8 DFI based technology. The car would be launched in 2010, to compete in 24 Hours of Le Mans, ALMS and LMS. The car will be an open roof, at the same way of the Spyder. This could explain why the Porsche has introduced the new DFI technology on the actual V8 3,4 litre of its sport car. The return of the Porsche in P1 changes all the plains for Audi, Peugeot and Acura. The long history of the Porsche in this kind or competition is legend, and it will mean a very hard challenge for all the opponents. After all, with RS Spyder LMP2 class car, they have showed to be competitive from the first race!

[Hugewally]

Why would that change any plans of the other manufacturers?

[Dario911]

1) Audi is controlled by Porsche, and Porsche may decide they could stop their sport program. So we could not see the R15...

2) Peugeot will reduce the power to its 908, wich will be on the same level of the petrol cars. With a strong competitor like the Porsche, they could be forced to introduce a new car, with new solutions, to be competitive like the newer cars.

3) Acura will meet its strogest competitor in P2 again. Acura has suffered two years against the Porsche. Only in the second part of this season, in ALMS, they seem to be as competitive as the Porsches. Fight the Porsche in P1 class could mean find more difficult, at the same way of what happened in P2.

If the Porsche would make a partnership with Penske Racing Team, it would be a very hard contender! We all know how much strong Porsche and Penske can be. Penske can be considered the Joest Team of P2 class. I think they could be at the same level of the Audi Sport, in P1 class. The results are clear, don't you think?

[isynge]

It could also be a way for Audi to start to phase out their involvement. With their track record it could well start be news when they lose rather than when they win thus the payback they get starts to get chipped away.

If Porsche take on the family responsibility then Audi can remove themselves from the scene without being seen to be driven off by competition.

[Hugewally]

Originally Posted by Dario911

1) Audi is controlled by Porsche, and Porsche may decide they could stop their sport program. So we could not see the R15...

2) Peugeot will reduce the power to its 908, wich will be on the same level of the petrol cars. With a strong competitor like the Porsche, they could be forced to introduce a new car, with new solutions, to be competitive like the newer cars.

3) Acura will meet its strogest competitor in P2 again. Acura has suffered two years against the Porsche. Only in the second part of this season, in ALMS, they seem to be as competitive as the Porsches. Fight the Porsche in P1 class could mean find more difficult, at the same way of what happened in P2.

If the Porsche would make a partnership with Penske Racing Team, it would be a very hard contender! We all know how much strong Porsche and Penske can be. Penske can be considered the Joest Team of P2 class. I think they could be at the same level of the Audi Sport, in P1 class. The results are clear, don't you think?

Audi owns Porsche, so who makes the plans there? Peugeot will produce a car to the new rules, regardless of who the competition is. Acura has already stated they're going into P1, seems to me to also be regardless of who the competition is. BTW - Acura has only been competitive in the second half of this season? 5 wins to 4 starting at the 3rd race of the season leads me to think otherwise.

[Valker]

Originally Posted by Hugewally

Audi owns Porsche, so who makes the plans there?

Sorry, that's not the case.

Volkswagen group owns 99.7% of Audi and Porsche owns about 35% of
Volkswagen group (has plans to increase ownership up to 51%).

[Hugewally]

I meant the other way around...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dario911

1) Audi is controlled by Porsche, and Porsche may decide they could stop their sport program. So we could not see the R15...

Audi already started the development of the R15, so why will this be stopped? If Audi stops with LMP1, they only have DTM. Where would they go instead?

Originally Posted by Dario911

2) Peugeot will reduce the power to its 908, wich will be on the same level of the petrol cars. With a strong competitor like the Porsche, they could be forced to introduce a new car, with new solutions, to be competitive like the newer cars.

Diesels will still have power advantage in the beginning of the year. Perhaps after Sebring, ACO will restrict the diesels even further.

Originally Posted by Dario911

3) Acura will meet its strogest competitor in P2 again. Acura has suffered two years against the Porsche. Only in the second part of this season, in ALMS, they seem to be as competitive as the Porsches. Fight the Porsche in P1 class could mean find more difficult, at the same way of what happened in P2.

Acura has suffered? Please check http://www.americanlemans.com/Compet....aspx?Class=P2. Acura is leading the manufacturer championship and Brabham/Sharp are only 4 points behind Bernhard/Dumas in drivers championship.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Following the article, this new is for sure, and at Weissach are working on the future engine: petrol V8 DFI based technology. The car would be launched in 2010, to compete in 24 Hours of Le Mans, ALMS and LMS. The car will be an open roof, at the same way of the Spyder.

The new LMP1 rules are only valid in 2011.

Originally Posted by Dario911

This could explain why the Porsche has introduced the new DFI technology on the actual V8 3,4 litre of its sport car.

They introduced DFI to regain an advantage (power and fuel economy) on Acura

[Dario911]

Sorry, there was a mistake with the date: Porsche LMP1 will be launched in 2011, when the new rules will be active.
DFI has been introduced of course, gwyllion, to regain power in confront of Acura, but to experiment some future solutions, too.
This is normal in motorsport. Or not?
Yes, Acura is having a great moment, but in the past season has suffered very much, while in the first part of this season the Porsche was clearly in the first place, in both classifications.
Now Penske is having some troubles, and Acura is in a magic moment. But the battle for the title is open. Porsche is paying some of his driver's mistakes.
Dr. Ullrich has said R15 has been designed, but not yet built and tested. They are waiting to decide what they will do. Anyway, in the last days, I've heard something about they will partecipate next ALMS and LMS. But nothing about the new car. It should be very expensive for Audi design a car for only two seasons...
Anyway, I think they will launch their R15, but nothing is sure for 2011, because I don't think the Porsche would be interested to a fratricidal war in P1. Do you remember 2003, Audi and Bentley?
What about Peugeot? Well, the've showed they are unable to win in Le Mans and LMS, so the Porsche, together with Acura, will be a new and greater trouble for that poor French team.
And 908 is growing old...

[zac510]

Does it say whether it is a factory effort or a customer car only (like the RS Spyder)?

[ThePenguin]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Audi already started the development of the R15, so why will this be stopped? If Audi stops with LMP1, they only have DTM. Where would they go instead?

They could go to F1 to compete with BMW and Mercedes.

[Dario911]

Anything about the future involvement of Porsche official team or customer team.

Acura is only four points ahead of the Porsche.

Audi is not interested to F1. This has been confirmed by dr. Ullrich.

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by Dario911

What about Peugeot? Well, the've showed they are unable to win in Le Mans and LMS, so the Porsche, together with Acura, will be a new and greater trouble for that poor French team.

They lost the LMS because of driver errors. All season they had the fastest car.

If this news is true, I would much rather them make it closed top.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Dr. Ullrich has said R15 has been designed, but not yet built and tested. They are waiting to decide what they will do. Anyway, in the last days, I've heard something about they will partecipate next ALMS and LMS. But nothing about the new car.

Ullrich has clearly indicated that Audi will retire the R10. They will not want to race another year against Peugeot with a slower car. In ALMS Acura is coming with a new car.

Originally Posted by Dario911

It should be very expensive for Audi design a car for only two seasons...

According ACO for 2011 LMP1 "No fundamental chassis modifications will be brought in." Only the aerodynamics will be changed to reduce risk of flips. So they only need to make a new body work and install a smaller engine in 2011.

[gttouring]

what's with the plans rumors i hear about 2011 outlawing LMP1 altogether- no V10 or V12's..
so esentially LMP2 will move into the top prototype class
i got this from autoblog.com... So is this what would bring Porsche to LMP1?

[Dario911]

@gwyllion: They will have to change engine, according to the new rules. Not only aerodynamic...

[gwyllion]

LMP1 will not be outlawed. They just have to race with smaller engines (used in current LMP2), possibly augmented with hybrid power. It is assumed that the current weight (900 kg) and tyre width stay the same., so current LMP2s do not automatically become LMP1 in 2011.

[Spyderman]

This "news" is very good to hear but two years is a very long way off, and the way the world economy is going, much can happen until then.
I suspect that Porsche are in fact working on further development of their V8 DFI engine, but I'm not so sure that they have yet designed a new car.( Aren't the new chassis regulations only being announced in November?).

[Dario911]

I think it will be very expensive for Audi to race a new car only for 2009/10...
From 2011 P1 and P2 will be closer, from the technical point of view. With slight improvements, P2 will became P1 class cars. The actual rules for the bodywork and aerodynamic are the same, for P1 and P2.

[gttouring]

ghmm this smacks of the GT2 becoming Gt1 and Gt1 going away..arguments.
the ACO certainly want to lower speeds and cost...

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dario911

I think it will be very expensive for Audi to race a new car only for 2009/10...

If they don't build a new car, they will be beaten big time by Peugeot so they should better stop.

Acura does not mind building a new car for 2 year...

[Dario911]

In a recent interview, Ullirch has commented last Audi's performance in Silverstone 1000 km in this way: "The gap from Peugeot has never been so close, and this is a good new for the future races".
What does it mean? Will Audi make some improvements on R10 to make it more competitive in 2009 (this year Audi has not worked very much on the car).
I don't think this could be the right answer.
Were his words referred to the next Petit Le Mans race?
Maybe.
The only think he has excluded is the intention for Audi to sell R10 to private teams (on the contrary of the glorious R8).
So, what is the true?

[Aslak Vind]

The R10 will be pensioned of after 2008, that has been established since before Le Mans. Both by Wollfgang and also Tom Kristensen, they will build a new car. Tom Kristensen is hoping, that he will get the chance to head the testwork before the season 2009.

So let us keep the guesswork to the unknowns

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Will Audi make some improvements on R10 to make it more competitive in 2009 (this year Audi has not worked very much on the car).

Audi has not worked on the R10 because they could not make any huge changes. And that is the reason why the R10 will be retired this year.

Originally Posted by Dario911

Were his words referred to the next Petit Le Mans race?

Yes of course.