Is This Correct

[Peter Mallett]

Thoughts anybody?

Originally Posted by ss_collins in the F1 Forum

- Brooklands Hosted the first British GP, Crystal Palace the first race, Brands is probably the oldest still in use (Grass track wheny Donington was fields),

[Andrew Kitson]

I'd say that is pretty accurate if you count motorcycles and cars.

Brooklands hosted the first RAC British GP in 1926.
The first purpose built racing circuit in the world (not Indianapolis as many think).

Crystal Palace the first ever race (motorcycles) in 1902.
Cars had their first race there in 1937.

Brands Hatch held motorcycle grass track races from 1926. First car race in 1950.

Donington had its first race (motorcycles) in 1931. Cars in 1933.

[TimD]

I'm away from my books at the moment but I believe that any pre-war motorsport at Brands would have been motorcycle trialling - scrambling, if you will.

There's a fairly good case for proposing a motor meet at Bexhill as the first UK competition now that I think about it. Can't remember if it predates the Crystal Palace speed trials by much off the top of my head.

Donington's first race meeting was I think 1933 or 1934, wasn't it?

[TimD]

Beat me to it, Andrew!

Brooklands opened in 1907, beating Indianapolis by four years.

[Peter Mallett]

What about the '37 and '38 Donington GP's

[Andrew Kitson]

They were just that Peter, the 'Donington Grand Prix' not British GP.
Remember no world championship then, just individual 'Grand Prize' races.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes,

But I'm thinking in terms of the historical importance of the circuits.

[John Turner]

If you are thinking of the British circuit that had the biggest impact prewar, then it would surely have to be Brooklands. It is also probably, historically, the most important, followed by Donington, although neither can claim to be the oldest as you have already stated.

[Andrew Kitson]

Depends what we term as important, ie. first 'major' car race meetings held? If so, Brooklands obviously comes first, then I'd say Donington then Silverstone. Throw Aintree, Crystal Palace, Brands Hatch, Goodwood and Oulton into the pot after these, in what order I don't know!

[Rob29]

The 26 & 27 Brooklands GPs were just 'RAC GP' The 'British' was not added until 1949.Also Indianapolis Speedway opened in 1909-first 500 mile race was in 1911.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by TimD

motorcycle trialling - scrambling, if you will.

Two totally different sports!

[Chris Roden]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

Depends what we term as important, ie. first 'major' car race meetings held? If so, Brooklands obviously comes first, then I'd say Donington then Silverstone.

I was under the impression that Brooklands was a fairly parochial place and didn't attract many overseas competitors, whereas Donington could lay claim to holding the first truly "international" events?

[Darren Galpin]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

The first purpose built racing circuit in the world (not Indianapolis as many think).

Although the Wisconsin State Fair Park was first used in 1903 and has been continually used for motor-racing ever since. It didn't start off as a purpose built venue though.

[Steve Wilkinson]

The Automobile Club of Great Britain and Ireland (ACGBI) held in June 1899 the General Efficiency Trials. These include a Hillclimb (Petersham Hill) and a Sprint. These two elements of the trial were the first competetive motor sport in the country.

[Darren Galpin]

I'm not so sure Stephen, as I've found evidence of an event which was at least attempted for 1897, although I don't know if it took place:

A competition arranged by the Engineer magazine, the cars were to go preliminary trials and inspection by judges between the 25th and 29th of May. The cars were to leave for Birmingham on the 1st June, returning to Crystal Palace within 50 hours for inspection and the award of prizes. The judges were Sir Frederick Bramwell, Mr J.A.F.Aspinall (chief mechanical engineer to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway), and Dr John Hopkinson F.R.S. The secretary was Mr H.Graham Harris and the assistant secretaries were to be Mr H.Carpmael, Mr G.E.Chadwyck-Healey and Mr Henry Fowler. A prize fund of 11,000 Guineas was proferred. Around 50 cars were to take part, but the event may have been cancelled after insufficient entries turned up.

Sources:
Liverpool Daily Post, 25th May 1897, pg 14.
Posting by “Bumblyari” on http://forums.atlasf1.com/showthread...threadid=83680

[ss_collins]

Crystal Palace the first ever race (motorcycles) in 1902.
Cars had their first race there in 1937.

No incorrect andrew- Crystal Palace ran banked oval races in 1899 (and possibly earlier) for cars and motorcycles. There were also other event on a longer 2 mile course.

See my book for full details and pics

[John Turner]

Nicely researched Darren; a bit harder than making a suitable comment about the 1987 British GP!

[D-Type]

Originally Posted by TimD

I'm away from my books at the moment but I believe that any pre-war motorsport at Brands would have been motorcycle trialling - scrambling, if you will.

No, it was grass track racing. The difference from scrambling is that you are basically racing on a road marked out on the grass while scrambling normally has a loose surface and bumps and the road is also generally wider.

On a question like this, the definitions matter: race, major, etc. Is a one-at-a-time speed trial a race?

[bauble]

Just feed 'the worlds oldest motor race' into google and see what comes up.

[Peter Mallett]

Well if you do that you come up with a company that is restoring the world's oldest motor racing circuit. Which (it suggests) is Brooklands and its doing that to support Mercedes Benz' history at the circuit.

Hmm.

[ss_collins]

world oldest pure motor race is an open road jobbie - the world first closed course motor race is a debated issue - the oldest proven event is Crystal Palace in 1899 which is a short while before the one in scotland.

[Peter Mallett]

Sources?

[ss_collins]

Well this would be a good start,

http://www.veloce.co.uk/shop/product...up=Motorsport&

look at the sample .pdf for one

other sources I used were the Autocar archives at Teddington, and the various sources inside that - (from whence the pictures which are beyond argument came!)

Now there is no earlier event recorded that I could find, niether could WB or anyone else at Motorsport

[rescue dude]

Delivery van class?

[RAP]

With regards to THE ENGINEER competition, six, possibly seven vehicles turned up. The competition was to be based on engineering judgement and the road run was to be untimed, other than to be completed in 50 hours (so it was not in any sense a race) with the judges examining the condition of the contestants after the run. In the event the judges deemed the road run unecessary and ruled that no entrant merited the prize although two were "highly commended"

At Easter 1899 a match race between the motor tricycles of C G Wridway and M Rigal (France) was held on the Crystal palace cycle track. The Times called this "..said to be the first ever held in England". Regular motor cycle races (note that this includes tricycles) were held until 1905 at Crystal Palace, it being the venue for the ACGBI annual championship.

The first, probably only, "car race" ie for 4 wheel vehicles was at Easter 1901 although what can best be termed timed tests were held in 1899.

Full details will be in the forthcoming Record of Motor Racing at Crystal Palace (plug!!)
Richard