Help Identifying Photograph

[DNQ]

Where is this? When?



I downloaded this video I while back, and really was shaken by the severity of it all. It was so fast, and I really doubt anyone could have survived. Anyway, can anyone identify where/when/who this is? It looks to me like it may the Nurburgring, and the cars are obviously late 1960's or early 1970's cars. Any help would be much appreciated.

It sure shows how much safety has improved...

[Brian Lear]

I dont follow the modern stuff, but it looks like one of the two
Mercedes (Mark Webber?) at Le Mans last year.

Brian Lear

[Ray Bell]

I don't think so Brian... I've been to that part of Le Mans and there's nowhere that looks like this. I think DNQ is correct in suggesting it's the Nurburgring, but it's only really an educated guess.

[Brian Lear]

Just had another look and think you are right (and I am wrong)
The Mercedes went much higher and the woods to the side were much denser and I dont recall the corner.

Brian Lear

[Udo]

I tend to agree to this being the Nurburgring. I know the track very well, as I happened to live next to it for several years.

I remember Hans Laine being killed in an accident like that. It happened on May 30th 1970 when the Finn was practicing for the 1000 KM race in an AAW Porsche 908. The accident occurred on the long straight "Doettinger Höhe" . It could be the place on the pictures, but I'm not 100% sure.

DNQ: do you remember where you got it from? Maybe some hints there.

[ghinzani]

Having blown the jpeg up as much as poss - the first car looks like a Toj or A Lola so maybe it is the Nurburgring, but I thought the Tojs and Lolas were a bit later than 70? Where did the video clip come from?

[Ray Bell]

Just looking at the bottom four frames, it could have been any meeting at Amaroo Park.. between the Loop and Mazda House...

But the airborne bit... Could it be the Osterreichring?

[Udo]

Sorry Ray,
having seen the Österreichring several times, I rule it out.
Nürburgring seems to be most likely.

[DNQ]

I believe the site is no longer in existence, so I will upload it to my web server in the next couple of minutes.

Now, Before you see it for yourself, I will say that it is definantly a very old car - Udo's suggestion of 1970 seems about right - the way that car falls to bits there is no way it is a recent accident. Then of course there is the lack of barriers.

Now the only other thing I can think of is Can-Am. I recall reading that there were a few crashes like this one .... but what track though?

Anyway, I will upload the video within the next hour or so.

[DNQ]

Here it is http://cfm.globalf1.net/downloads/vi...fied_crash.wmv (550kb, 7 seconds, Win Movie)

There you go. By the way, the site that had it contained no clues whatsoever, simply a list of videos - crash01, crash02, crash03 etc - so no help at all.

[DNQ]

Hmm, of course it had to be a broken link didn't it..?

Try this instead http://cfm.globalf1.net/downloads/vi...fied_crash.wmv (Remember, you need Windows Media Player 7.1)

[Invincible]

Could it be Herbert Muller racing in the Nurburgring 1000km?

Mind you it was 1981 so i'm not that sure, just looking at my world motor racing circuits book and Muller crashed on a straight that looked possibly to be covered by trees

In between Bergwerk and the Karussel, could it possibly be that?

[Udo]

Herbert Müller's crash at the Bergwerk section of the Nürburgring was a fiery one. He crashed into Bobby Rahals stranded Porsche on the left hand side of the circuit,after loosing control of his Porsche 936 (Siegfried Brunn's car). Both cars caught fire immediately, Müller died from his burns.
The Bergwerk section is not really a straight, but an uphill combination of fast rights and lefts leading to a short "straight" before the right hander up to the Karussell. At the time of Müller's accident there were barriers, of course.

[paulzinho]

Scary looking crash...i'm having probs with the video so i'm basing it on the pictures...i havent got a clue.

[Vitesse]

Originally posted by paulzinho
Scary looking crash...i'm having probs with the video so i'm basing it on the pictures...i havent got a clue.

It takes a VERY long time to load, Paul. I sat watching the screen for about 5 minutes: the trick, I think, is not to try doing anything else but just let it do its own thing, otherwise it starts reloading from the start again. If you put WMP in full screen you can watch progress and it will - eventually - play!

[paulzinho]

When i try downloading it the media player just says buffering and runs through percentages several times. Should it be doing this? I get the odd still frame as well.

[DNQ]

There is a better way to view it, fellas.

Right click on the link, click save target as. Then watch it from your harddrive, then there'll be none of that buffering/loading rubbish. Much easier.

[Vitesse]

Thanks DNQ - that works brilliantly. I've lost hours of my life waiting for WMP to load things!!

[DNQ]

Glad to be of assistance Vitesse

[Jared]

Perhaps it's a longshot, but could the circuit in question perhaps be Lime Rock Park in the U.S.? That circuit has a rise followed by a right hand corner that we see in frames five and six. At this rise (where a chicane was constructed several years ago to remedy the situation), several cars have taken off like the Mercedes of Le Mans 1999. There is a book I have that includes a picture of the gold Miller Porsche 962 GTP with the front tires off the ground and the car aimed at a 40-45 degree angle like a missile ready for launch.

An even longer shot, but perhaps Mosport? The back straightaway (where there is a crest) is followed by a right turn. I believe I have heard of cars launching themselves at that point on the track.

By the way, this is my first post here since February. It's good to be back.

[DNQ]

Welcome back Jared. I too was thinking it may be a Can-Am race or something in America.

[Hans.ca]

That was a can-am practise at St. Jovit and I believe the car that went underneat was John Cordts. Can't remember the year but I think it was before 1970.

[Tom Berge]

According to 'Road & Track' September, 1970, Jackie Oliver's Autocoast-Chev. - "became airborne on the first lap of the '70 St.Jovite CAN-AM over the hump on the circuit's back straight and executed a reverse flip. The car landed on its nose, plowed down the straight and evetually tore onto the bordering berm. Oliver walked away with a slight whiplash."

I think this description fits in with what's happening in the video.

[fines]

Hello Tom, and welcome, although I have to disagree with you! This can't be the Autocoast, since the accident happened on the first lap and Oliver started right behind the two McLarens, and this is certainly not a McLaren here in front! It's pretty difficult, since you don't see anything but the underside of the crashed car...

[jimclark]

Road Atlanta is my guess. It's been nearly thirty years since i was last there but it could be the bacstraight...a number of Can Am cars flipped there...