Marshal Training

[opara]

Hi Guys!

Now just a quick one. My work makes it very difficult for me to attend training sessions,as I work at sea.

I was wondering if any professional qualifications are accepted in lieu of this, or in addition to? I have qualifications in fire fighting and advanced first aid as well as other things I think are use full to that of a marshal.

Dont get me wrong, I am more than happy to attend the traning sessions that are offered, and am no way using this as a means to not attend them! If I have to wait to attend one, then I have to wait! I was really just wondering if peoples qualifications can be carried over and recognised by the MSA?

Thanks in advance.

[bigorangeoveralls]

you need to do a trianing day every two years

[mattt]

you dont need the training days to marshal as such

you only need training days to progress through and then maintain your grades

have heard of a situation recently, where a professional qualification was not being considered for marshalling grades eg paramedic training not being a substitute for the basic first aid module

although given your circumstances maybe talking to a grading officer, they may be able to work with you and come up with a solution

[Slipstick]

Since they've now organised the training requirements into lists of modules that need to be completed it's pretty unlikely that anyone's non-marshalling qualifications will cover all the modules to the satisfaction of the MSA. Presumably you'd still need to attend a training day to complete the full set of modules so you wouldn't really save anything.

But I'm just guessing really.

Steve

[Steven Humphrey]

Hi Opara & welcome to Tenths.
I discussed this with Chris Hobson last weekend at the BMMC S Mids training day & was told that all the required training modules need to be attended to progress through the grading scheme. So trainee to track must attend basic marshalling, fire & flag. Track to experienced track needs fire, flag, incident & basic first aid (which is where I'm at). These are usually covered in one training day, however basic first aid wasn't covered in the day last week (or any of the previous 3 days I've attended) so I was told I need to attend another day. I work for a private ambulance service as an emergency medical technician and have been trained as first person on scene, so I thought I could use this instead of having to attend another training day but was told no. Apparently, even fire fighters will still have to attend a fire module. Since talking to other marshals about this, I have heard of several who got exemptions from the MSA regarding certain aspects of training, due to their professional qualifications so I will be seeking clarification over this.

I don't want to criticize the grading scheme, as I know people have worked hard to put a system in place, but I do think a little leniency could be shown in circumstances like this.

[JimW]

Welcome. You need to distinguish between going marshalling and going through the grading scheme.

You don't need anything to go marshalling. Volunteer, turn up and tell the chief marshal that you are new. They will make sure you are looked after, made welcome and helped to stay safe.

You don't need overalls but ought to wear sensible outdoor clothes for British weather. Bring a pair of stout leather gloves, e.g. gardening ones. Walking boots good.

On the other hand, if you want to follow the grading scheme, it is pretty inflexible but you will, in time, be able to attend a training day. In the meantime collect the attendance signatures so that on completing the training day you get upgraded.

In terms of attending the first aid or fire sessions even if you have a background in those areas of work, remember that part of what is included is how the TEAM you are joining will be expecting you to work, what role you will be expected to play (and what not to play) and something about the special hazards and circumstances of this new environment.

Regards

Jim Whitaker
BMMC Midland Region Training Officer

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by JimW

In terms of attending the first aid or fire sessions even if you have a background in those areas of work, remember that part of what is included is how the TEAM you are joining will be expecting you to work, what role you will be expected to play (and what not to play) and something about the special hazards and circumstances of this new environment.

Regards

Jim Whitaker
BMMC Midland Region Training Officer

That's a good point. My main gripe is the fact that I've already attended 4 training days over 3 years (since upgrading from trainee), twice the number required, but have to attend another one just for the basic first aid module (in which I'm sure I won't learn anything I don't already know).

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by opara

I was wondering if any professional qualifications are accepted in lieu of this, or in addition to? I have qualifications in fire fighting and advanced first aid as well as other things I think are use full to that of a marshal.

Dont get me wrong, I am more than happy to attend the traning sessions that are offered, and am no way using this as a means to not attend them! If I have to wait to attend one, then I have to wait! I was really just wondering if peoples qualifications can be carried over and recognised by the MSA?

I would expect that the rules are not absolutely set in stone, and that exceptions can be made for legitimately exceptional circumstances. If you're a club member (BMMC, BARC, whatever), get in touch with your club's grading secretary, explain your situation, and see if they can help you out. Just for e.g., you can't prove you've had the training, but perhaps they might let you try prove that you do indeed have the right skills via some form of extended / more in-depth assessment at a more convenient time.

Of course, they may say no, but it can't hurt to ask.

EDIT....

Originally Posted by JimW

Jim Whitaker
BMMC Midland Region Training Officer

.... or of course, you could wait for one to get in touch with you here first, and ignore everthing I say

[Steven Humphrey]

Problem is, the new PRCs have individual lines for each training module needed and as these will end up back at the MSA, i guess they all need to be signed off. I have a Btec certificate for my F-POS (first person on scene) qualification & could supply a copy of that. I do get the impression that things are set in stone with this though.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Steven Humphrey

Problem is, the new PRCs have individual lines for each training module needed and as these will end up back at the MSA, i guess they all need to be signed off. I have a Btec certificate for my F-POS (first person on scene) qualification & could supply a copy of that. I do get the impression that things are set in stone with this though.

Stone is perhaps a bit rigid; I'd settle for thick mud. If you see me around, have a word.

Regards

Jim

[opara]

Hi guys,

Thanks for the advice. Like I say I dont mind attending the training, and I will attend as many as I can. Its just I have been doing it for a few years now and feel I may never advance!! Its really not a problem I will contnue to rack up those signatures and I am sure a sutible date will turn up sooner or later!!

[opara]

Just another quick query. All being well I will be able to attend a training day next year, assuming they will be held in Feb/March as usual!

So, and please forgive my ignorance, my question is if I have acheived the relevent days marshalling prior to attending a training day, am I able to take my grading assessment, then once I have attended a training day send off my relevent bits and pieces for an upgrade. Or must I do it as per the new PRC and attend a training day prior to requesting an assessment?

I hope that I am not being to much of a pain and look forward to hearing your responses! Cheers guys and girls!

[Steven Humphrey]

Pass! In theory, I can't see a problem with it but in practise, I'm not sure if an XPC will give you an upgrade signature without the relevant training sig(s). I'm sure someone on here will give you a better answer soon!

[flying muppet]

An Examining PC should NOT give an upgrade signature unless all the other requirements have been proved - i.e. attendance at the appropriate and correct training modules, and the required number of attendance signatures in the correct discipline.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by flying muppet

An Examining PC should NOT give an upgrade signature unless all the other requirements have been proved - i.e. attendance at the appropriate and correct training modules, and the required number of attendance signatures in the correct discipline.

I thought that an XPC *could* give an upgrade sig to somebody who was involved in and did well in a big deal......or has that one been ruled out now?

[numbersix]

When I first started race marshalling I came from a background over over 15 years experience as a rescue boat "marshal" for hydroplane racing. There are many similarities and also many occasions that are more difficult than motor racing. (With a few exceptions, racing drivers are unlikely to drown or swim in a lake of fire!)

I disliked the notion of being a novice marshal all over again but took the view that any previous experience I had would help me progress through the grades, without missing any pearls of knowledge that apply solely to track racing. Starting again was a valuable experience, and I made the right decision.

So, my view is that any previous experience or professional qualifications are massively helpful but should not replace formal training and on-track experience.

BTW. If the Gods of Oulton Park ever need a rescue boat at Lakeside - I'm your man!

[deley]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

I thought that an XPC *could* give an upgrade sig to somebody who was involved in and did well in a big deal......or has that one been ruled out now?

"If a marshal is seeking track or experienced track gradings and handles a major incident during the day, then the Post Chief may recommend that the signature for the day is treated as an upgrade signature. In this case the Post Chief should indicate so on the card and ask a senior or examining grade official to countersign the record card"

i.e. there is an option for having a signature to cover the incident part of an upgrade assessment in special circumstances - the training modules and flag assessment would stiil be needed (for Trainee - Track and Track - Experienced).

Dave

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by numbersix

When I first started race marshalling I came from a background over over 15 years experience as a rescue boat "marshal" for hydroplane racing. There are many similarities and also many occasions that are more difficult than motor racing. (With a few exceptions, racing drivers are unlikely to drown or swim in a lake of fire!)

BTW. If the Gods of Oulton Park ever need a rescue boat at Lakeside - I'm your man!

Where were you when the mini decided to have a paddle?

[flying muppet]

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

I thought that an XPC *could* give an upgrade sig to somebody who was involved in and did well in a big deal......or has that one been ruled out now?

No, that hasn't been ruled out - but that wasn't the question!!!

The question was, can I ask for an upgrade before I have done the appropriate training, and the answer is a straight forward no.

[Slipstick]

Originally Posted by flying muppet

The question was, can I ask for an upgrade before I have done the appropriate training, and the answer is a straight forward no.

If you look back a bit you'll see the actual question was whether you can get the practical assessment signatures e.g. flag assessment/incident assessment out of the way before you get the training done and signed off and I thought the answer to that one was a straightforward yes.

I.e. you must have everything including training signed off before applying for the upgrade but the order in which you do the various parts is not mandated.

Steve

[deley]

Originally Posted by Slipstick

If you look back a bit you'll see the actual question was whether you can get the practical assessment signatures e.g. flag assessment/incident assessment out of the way before you get the training done and signed off and I thought the answer to that one was a straightforward yes.

I.e. you must have everything including training signed off before applying for the upgrade but the order in which you do the various parts is not mandated.

Steve

It has worked like that in the past when it was just "a training day signature" (XPC would write specific comment that u/g assessment was successful and recommend for u/g subject to a training signature)
..... the new modular training signatures could make this a little more difficult as a specific set are now required and for some grades need to be over 2 years.

Dave

[JimW]

As I understand it, the requirements for upgrading are stand alone and not sequential. I.E. they all have to be met but not in any specified order.

However, we need not to loose sight that a "good" order will be something like:

1. Training
2. Experience
3. Training
4. Experience
5. Assessment

But as the assessment is combined with experience it can occur anywhere, especially when it is a note of good performance at a substantial incident.

Regards

Jim

[opara]

There seems to be some confusion. I am not looking for 'fast tracking' or missing bits of the process or looking for an easy option. I am just asking if you can request an upgrade signature before awaiting training, THEN do the training before sending off papers for upgrade. The only reason I ask is that by the end of this year, i would have had 2 years in and plenty of days, just, as previously mentioned, working at sea does not always allow me to attend training, so this would be all I am awaiting. It looks as though I will make training next year, so if I have to wait another year for an upgrade, so be it. I really enjoy marshalling and fully understand that we all have to go through the process, I do not have a problem with that, just seeking clarification on what can and cannot be done regarding upgrades. Thanks for listening and thanks for your useful replies!!