Ford Fans VS Holden Fans

[pete55]

I don't know whether you fanatical Ford or Holden fans out there realise that if one make wins everything (especially in a 2 make series) then very soon you will have a one make series. I'm sure none of you want that so when you post your threads why not take that into consideration.
Once you get to the track support your Ford or Holden team to the hilt with all your merchandise etc but when discussing making rules about parity etc use a bit of common sense and put the fanatical Ford vs Holden thing to the side for a while.

[moffman]

Originally posted by pete55
I don't know whether you fanatical Ford or Holden fans out there realise that if one make wins everything (especially in a 2 make series) then very soon you will have a one make series.

Strike me down Pete where have you been living mate it's happening now. This is what the aero testing is all about trying to balance the scales.......a pity it's five years to late

[pete55]

I agree with you Moffman and as i've said before i'm a Holden fan. I was referring to the fans in this site being sensible when writing about the parity issue instead of being one eyed fanatical Ford or Holden fans.

[Pure GT]

This is a very sensitive area Pete. 1. I am a dyed in the wool Ford supporter. 2. I want to see an exciting series this year, hopefully with Ford dominating the round wins.
3. Parity. I don't know the answer to this one, as I have said before, if we finally get the parity issue sorted and the Ford & Holden cars are equal in performance, how can anyone but the first few grid positions win races?

I hope that I am proven wrong but to me Parity = Boring.

[Crash Test]

Ohhh gawd.... please people, keep this thread intelligent

[pete55]

Thats what i was hoping would happen Crash but as Pure GT says it s a sensative subject

[toploader]

What do you mean crash.I think pure gt is right on the money and a 280kmph freight train is good for moving stock interstate and parity to the absolute will be as boring as a hsv open day.....

[pete55]

If you don't achieve parity between makes nothing will change. If you don't want parity it will be the biggest spenders that will win and nothing will change still.
Probably the only way to achieve better racing is get rid of the 2 make series and bring other makes in or go back to a Group A type series without those limited number of special cars required to be built.
Me, i'm in favour of a Group A type formula. I think this Holden vs Ford thing has had it's day. The proposed 300km races for Group A type cars would provide good racing in my opinion. I remember the BMW vs Sierra vs Commodore vs Skyline vs Volvo battles and with a little bit of fine tuning would be the best option.

[Armco Bender]

I remember the BMW vs Sierra vs Commodore vs Skyline vs Volvo battles

Yep I can see the BMW and Volvo fans at Bathurst sitting in their areas on top of the mountain,sipping chardonnay,wearing white shoes ,with a string quartet playing Beethoven in the background....

Get Real V8 Racing is FORD vs HOLDEN and beer

[pete55]

Armco, i was talking about racing, not a parade of fast loud cars

[Ozenigma]

Whats wrong with fast loud cars?

[The Tool Man]

Originally posted by pete55
I don't know whether you fanatical Ford or Holden fans out there realise that if one make wins everything (especially in a 2 make series) then very soon you will have a one make series. I'm sure none of you want that so when you post your threads why not take that into consideration.
Once you get to the track support your Ford or Holden team to the hilt with all your merchandise etc but when discussing making rules about parity etc use a bit of common sense and put the fanatical Ford vs Holden thing to the side for a while.

DITTO Pete

[Pure GT]

Originally posted by pete55
If you don't achieve parity between makes nothing will change. If you don't want parity it will be the biggest spenders that will win and nothing will change still.
Probably the only way to achieve better racing is get rid of the 2 make series and bring other makes in or go back to a Group A type series without those limited number of special cars required to be built.
Me, i'm in favour of a Group A type formula. I think this Holden vs Ford thing has had it's day. The proposed 300km races for Group A type cars would provide good racing in my opinion. I remember the BMW vs Sierra vs Commodore vs Skyline vs Volvo battles and with a little bit of fine tuning would be the best option.

Pete, it was something like this, that I was trying to spit out earlier. I see parity as a catch 22. I want to see Ford competitive. I don't want the biggest budget teams to win and I don't want complete parity. Now I'm very confused. The Group A type formula sounds very appealing at the moment.:confused:

[275 GTB-4]

Pete ole buddy, you really do sound like some sort of apologist for the two litre brigade masquerading as a genuinly concerned V8 fan.

Rules of Marketing:

1. The customer is always right!

("But they only like the home grown product and there's little room to get fat internationaly marketing the series"

("I know, spread disatisfaction, drive a wedge between the fans especially now when AVESCO and teams are little slow getting news out"

2. The customer is always right, even when there (expletive deleted) wrong!!

You have posted quite a bit lately and thats good, it is open forum, but the traditional Ford vs Holden battle is something we can guaranty crowd interest.....why dick with it!!!

[pete55]

It does to me to Pure GT. Wonder what would happen if a smart promotor proposed to start up such a series.

[racer69]

I'm not biased one way or the other, and am not a fan of parity formula's. Parity in my view just causes more problems, as Project Blueprint has proven. In some cases it is needed (ST to get abit of balance between FWD, RWD and 4WD, which worked well because these were hardly ever tampered with, and to an extent in NC, but that has gone well over the top), but in a formula were the engines are the same size, same drive etc...parity adjustments are just silly in my opinion.

I'm happy to see one make dominating as long as it is the better team/manufacturer doing the job, hence why Ferrari last year didn't bother me in F1.

The sooner we get some proper rules, cars relating to their road going counterparts and more manufacturers the better in my opinion.

[mtpanorama]

Originally posted by 275 GTB-4
, but the traditional Ford vs Holden battle is something we can guaranty crowd interest.....why dick with it!!!

Thats because it is force fed to us like there is nothing else that exists.
If they dont lift their game this year as far as "racing' goes and not just another year of a one team walkover and the rest of the feild playing follow the leader, it will be another boring year of v8 soupcars.
I am a FORD fan and i like to see them win, but give me competitive racing anyday, whether it be Ford v Holdon, or any other type of racing. As long as it is competitive and not so alike that there is no use even turning up to the track.

[gsr]

Originally posted by pete55
Me, i'm in favour of a Group A type formula. I think this Holden vs Ford thing has had it's day. I remember the BMW vs Sierra vs Commodore vs Skyline vs Volvo battles and with a little bit of fine tuning would be the best option.

I can't agree with H v F had it's day. It's a simple fact that the 4 cyl race cars just don't appeal to the Aussie public. They tried and failed ,case closed. Now I'm not suggesting the V8's are perfect ,but the corporate and crowd support would indicate that things can't be all that bad.

[Pure GT]

Maybe not all that bad as a spectacle, but as far as racing is concerned I think it is in alot of trouble. GSR, we have talked about this before. Imagine how successful V8supercars could be if the racing was like a 250 MotoGP race. The sky would be the limit. It would be the greatest formula in the world.

[pete55]

275 GTB, i am quite aware of marketing. That is one of the main reasons i say that a Group A type of formula would be better than what we have.
I not only have a gripe with V8 Supercars over this , i also don't think Procar is remotely on the right track either.
One point, If your product is good you don't have to worry about what your competitor is doing.

[racer69]

Originally posted by gsr
I can't agree with H v F had it's day. It's a simple fact that the 4 cyl race cars just don't appeal to the Aussie public. They tried and failed ,case closed. Now I'm not suggesting the V8's are perfect ,but the corporate and crowd support would indicate that things can't be all that bad.

I'm not sure to alot of the general public if it is the cars that matter, i'd be more inclined to say it was the drivers. If all of the top drivers and teams had been in Super Touring, would the result of the 'war' have been different? Major speculating though

While i wouldn't say the F v H rivalry has had it's day, i think them both being standalone without other manufacturers and the fact that as Mt says we have been force fed them has.

How good would it be if there was a battle within a battle. Ford vs Holden with a bunch of other cars and manufacturers thrown in to the battle, whatever the formula was?

[pete55]

Racer, are you sure all cars out there this year are fully sponsored or are some still out there looking. Corporate support for the top 8 teams is pretty good but after that it slackens off a bit.
Get the right formula, get the manufacturers interested and i reckon it would be a lot better.

[pete55]

Sorry racer, it was quote by gsr that i was commenting on.

[William Dale Jr]

Ford and Holden both have their 'main' teams, Holden's are HRT, KRT, CPR and GRM, Ford's are SBR, DJR, Prodrive and BJR. Could it be that the relative lack of corporate (read financial) support is down to diminished manufacturer support? If this is right, then throw in another couple of new manufacturers (read Toyota and Mitsubishi) to back the other teams and Bob's your State Premier; you have 16 manufacturer backed and reasonably well funded teams.

I might be a Ford fan, but I wouldn't really be that bothered if my marque didn't win as long as it was a good race between varied cars.

Either way you look at it, the V8 Supercar category IS the most popular series we have had in this country. HRT could dominate for the next five years and the punters will turn up in droves. Just watch out at the Clipsal 500 and the other showcase rounds. Like ST, Group A is dead with the nearest alternative to those style of series being GT Performance . . . . maybe that could be the alternative for those who don't like the V8 Supercar formula?