Wings and Airbox reg's

[Try Hard]

Ok, let me get this straight, the rear wing endplates and airbox's have been increased in size, just to satisfy commercial interests to allow more billboard space. Any body else think this is just wrong? I can understand changes in need of safety, even more so if they atttempt to introduce overtaking (which admitadly hasn't happened...yet), but to give a little more space for advitising...come on! What next? mandatory sidepods sizes? carry on like this and the whole car will be designed before the designers get their go....

plus they look bloody ugly....

Regards
Ed

[Red]

:confused:

No, they increased the endplates to improve the efficiency of the rear wing. (And they're not ugly, or define your idea of beautiful/ugly Formula 1 car.) What's wrong with the airbox?

[Try Hard]

Well i could go scientific and suggest the 1.6 natural ratio thing that was discussed in the sportscar forums regarding the daytonna prototypes, but i won't . I guess it's just personal preferences, and i prefer ultimate racing cars to look slim and sleek, which I feel the rear wings and airboxs aren't. I guess this is more obvious if i say that some of my favorite cars come from 1997, with wide track, and small wings (instead of todays barn-doors) and endplates. Just look at a hockenheim or monza race pic to see what I mean.
I will say they i do lik some of the current rear end detailing on '04 cars, i don't think you could get much smaller!

With regard to the rear wing, why increase the efficency, when to induced ovetaking you want to reduce it? (more drag, less downforce). call me cynical, but that doesn't make much sense.

Regards
Ed

[Red]

Because their goal is not to increase overtaking, but to make fast cars, that fast that the opponents will not be able to pass them perhaps? And the rear wings ARE smaller now then in 1997.

PS: But this is not sports car. This is Formula 1.

[Try Hard]

Red, I belive you may have got the wrong end of the stick. What I'm refering to is that fact the, as I understand it, the FIA have chaged (increased) the mandatory minimum size of the rear wing endplate, whilst also reducing the number elements in the wing (from 3 to 2). To me this doesn't say the FIA are attempting to adjust the regulations with regard to performance, as any aerodynamist will tell you is that a 3 element wing is more efficient than an a 2 element one. I will agree that a larger endplate is more efficient (it allows more downforce to be created with less drag), but this seems to be negated by the 2 element wing. Therefore the performance of the car will stay roughly the same, which is surely not what the FIA should be aiming towards if they wish to increase overtaking.

I only question this, as i have heard rumours about the reasoning behind the increased sizing of this parts, as stated in my first post.

Also the 1997 moza and germany wings are much smaller in frontal area than the current generation (sorry my mistake there i should have outlined what i was refering too more clearly).

With regard to the sportscar/f1 question, i know its an F1. What i was refering to is that nature has a ratio which has been scientifically proven to be recognised as proportionatly correct in producing things we recognise as pretty/good looking etc. The ratio number itself is 1.6. for example a correctly proportioned (pretty??) person's height is roughly 1.6 times their width. This applies to all thing be it people, sportscar and F1.

Regards
Ed

[Red]

Try Hard, no, you are a bit wrong. Larger end plates are allowed not mandatory.

PS: I said in a previous post, I'll repeat now: FIA's role is to ensure rules. Car maker's goal is to make fast cars. None of them really want to make "increase overtaking" as their primary goal. Or this is how it should be, unfortunately FIA and carmakers do work hard to increase the "show".

[Inigo Montoya]

Right, they reduced the number of elements, and because the manufacturers complained of the decreased advertising space, they decided to allow bigger endplates. That is the way I understand it.

[Try Hard]

Ok, I was under the impression that, as with previous regulations, the FIA had mandadted a new (larger) size for the rear wing endplates. I take that instead of having a set size, there is now a range that is allowed? I expect most will have gone to the larger size, as despite a drag penalty.
My original questions still holds, especially regarding airbox covers. I mean why the change, unless there was pressure from the teams to allow more advitising space (which i know has been rumoured, with larger front wings as well), as there seems to be no solid technical reasoning behind the FIA's decision, as the changes will probably only have a small affect on the aerodynamic performance, which by now has already been clawed back in development. This basically sounds like a waste of time and money on the teams behalf.
Maybe the technical reasons are being used as an excuse?

Maybe I'm just being overally cynical.

Ed

Also on aside note, i noticed that Mclaren ran an illegal wing in another post. Why was this so? was it due to the number of elements or plate size?

[Red]

I don't have a problem with "allowed" (as opposed to "restricted"), no matter what mercantile reasoning. if they want to run a 5 feet long end plate fine with me. Guess who'd get more sponsorsphip money, a loser with an extra 10 square inch of ad-space, or a good car?

Larger front wings wings appeared as a side effect of higher front wing rule, and is intended to provide higer downforce on front. (it is bad, I know, I know)

PS: As far as I know, but I might be wrong, no changes this year regarding body work (airbox).

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah, the airbox regulation did not change. Major changes for this year:

1) number of upper elements on rear wing reduced to 2
2) One engine per race weekend. Anything goes wrong with it, they drop 10 places on the grid.
3) Automatic Gearboxes and Launch Control banned, but TC stays.
4) Radios must not transmit data - and FIA has access to them.
5) Race Weekend Schedule:

Friday
11.00-12.00 Free practice

14.00-15.00 Free practice


During both sessions all teams, other than those who finished in the top four positions of the previous year’s World Championship for Constructors, will be permitted to run a third car provided any driver of this car:

is not one of the team’s nominated drivers for the Event in question;

is in possession of a Super Licence;

has not taken place in more than six World Championship Events during the two previous World Championships.

If one of the team’s nominated drivers is deemed unable to drive at some stage after the end initial scrutineering, and the stewards agree to a change of driver, the driver of a third car may take part in the remainder of the Event. Under such circumstances a driver who started the Event as a “third” driver would have to continue with the same engine for the remainder of the Event.

The requirements of Article 60 concerning car livery will not apply to the third car being used during these two sessions but will apply should this car be used as the team’s spare car during the remainder of the event.

Saturday
10.00-10.45 Free practice

11.15-12.00 Free practice

14.00 Qualifying begins and will be run as follows:


the session will be held in two parts separated by two minutes;

during the first part each driver will carry out a single timed lap as now starting in the order they finished in the previous race. At the first race of the year the order of the last Event of the previous year’s World Championship will be used (in both cases any new drivers will be arranged in numerical order);

any car stopping in the first part will not be allowed to take part in the second, if the car is brought back to the pits before the end of the session it must remain in parc fermé until the end of the session;

refuelling rigs will be allowed in the first part subject to everyone wearing suitable clothing and photographers being restricted as for a race;

the running order for the second part will be determined by the times achieved in the first part reversed;

cars will run with race fuel and race settings as in 2003;

in both sessions cars will be released as the previous one crosses the Line to start its flying lap;

in both sessions the 6th, 11th and 16th cars in sequence will be released two minutes after the previous finishes its flying lap;

Sunday
14.00 Race (or at other times according to the relevant schedule)

6)Tyre use and allocation
The number of dry-weather tyres available to each driver during the Event will remain the same at forty, twenty front and twenty rear.

Each driver will be allocated three sets of dry-weather tyres for use on Friday, these may not be used at any other time during the Event. No tyres from the remaining seven sets may be used on Friday.

The choice of dry-weather tyre for qualifying and race must be made by 09.00 on Saturday (either specification of tyre may be used for the free practice sessions on Saturday). However, if both Friday sessions are declared wet this choice may be postponed until 13.00 on Saturday.

The number of wet-weather tyres available to each driver during the Event will remain the same at twenty-eight, fourteen front and fourteen rear.

Extreme weather tyres will continue to be permitted but, as now, may only be used when authorised.

Parc fermé procedures
To remain the same as in 2003 but the practice of fuel circulation for the purposes of cooling will now be prohibited.

Number of drivers per car
Each team will now be allowed to use four drivers during each season, not including any third driver running in the Friday sessions.

Pit lane speed limit
The speed limit for qualifying and race will be raised to 100km/h. In accordance with Article 100 (of the draft 2004 Sporting Regulations) the Permanent Bureau may be asked to consider a lower limit at tracks which have a particularly narrow pit lane

[Smokey 6 litre]

if they want to increse over taking its the front wing, not the rear, that they want to change.

i like the sound of the 1.6. ratio, i saw a programe a while ago presented by John clease on that same concept, although i dont know if it would apply to cars!

[Try Hard]

apparently it does, hence the heated aruge... sorry debate ( ) regardsin the DP roof's over in Sportscar and GT....

Anyway, I understand that some of the F1 Cars have a larger enginge covers this year. (From what i previously understand, the enginecover is not allowed to extened into a triangular zone above it. this was to stop the mclaren '95 style mid wings.)
I'm sure I read patrick head speaking about it, then again it may have been from the technical article in Autosport on the FW26. I'll try and dig it out when i get home.

Regards
Ed

BTW, if i confused ppl, when i said airbox previously, i ment engine cover...

[Red]

Smokey, in order to steer you need grip on front wheels. Removing front wings hardly improves this aspect. However, you can minimize their importance by creating low speed "a la Tilke" corners; but everyone hates them too.

PM: You didn't Try Hard, I was talking about engine cover too

[Try Hard]

ok, I have just read this on Autosports Firstveiw, it's in tomorrows edition on page 11:

New Rules Push Up speeds : Formula 1's new for 2004 regulations have improved the cars performance, even though they were brought in only as a means of boosting the visibility of sponsers logo's

Therefore my original question stands.

The article goes onto say:

Jaguar revealed last week that the rear wing and engine cover modifications have decreased downforce by 3 percent but improved drag by an impressive 4.3%. This means the overall perfromance of the car has been theoretically improved.

This agress with what i stated above, that even with a decrease in downforce, the bigger endplates counter this by providing a more efficent wing.

The graphic refered to in the second quote is of an F1 car highlighting the endplate extension (of an extra 100mm rearward), and the engine cover, needing to be a set heights to legally comply.

Regards
Ed