Bernie in competing series move...?

[Greem]

Mods: merge with another thread if you think that's necessary, I couldn't really think which one to put this in...

In Auto-Bild (yes, I know, Bild isn't the most reliable of sources):

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/forme...-10924171.html

Nuts and bolts: Briatore's been putting together 'GP1' for a while, and apparently Mr E thinks it's a good idea. Let's see where this goes.

EDIT: Joe Saward's view:

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2017...-championship/

[Richard C]

IMHO, the biggest factor in this (with respect to BE) is this quote from Saward...

The other key question is how many big corporations are going to invest heavily in a business run by someone who is knocking 90, who won’t have a succession plan…

Putting that aside, I like the idea of competition and ultimately the threat of an alternate series. Frankly a large problem with F1 is that BE has so many players tied up contractually, it has prevented competition, which ultimately has prevented new ideas. Saward also makes the point that BE now has to battle the fortress he built.

I expect the current players are very much in a wait and see with respect to Liberty. I think the only potential chance of this working is is Liberty tries to break the special deal with Ferrari (which I personally think is a good thing), then Ferrari may threaten to move elsewhere. And I can't see Ferrari jumping into an alternative series unless they received special consideration which IMHO would be a bad way to recruit other entrants. Nothing like a recruiting poster that say... "Join us and be a second class citizen!" (which frankly is the current F1 recruiting poster But at least it seems to be an established place to be vs. the uncertainty of an upstart series.)

Richard

[Formulahistory]

I'm sure that will never happen.

The name Formula 1 is too big.

[Richard C]

Another thing that puzzles me... I would have expected Liberty to have put in place some type of non-compete clause in Bernie's exit. However... given Bernie's wealth, he would have had little incentive to agree to that (what leverage would Liberty have over him? Probably none). Liberty may also think the potential for success is so low, why bother pushing the point!

Richard

(Edit: Might there be a prior non-compete as part of Bernie working for CVC that might have carried over to Liberty? CVC may have had enough leverage years ago to extract a transferrable non-compete out of him)

[chillibowl]

Peter Windsor on twitter with a comment about this.

The response today when an F1 luminary was asked privately how Mr E was doing: "He's setting-up a breakaway series". Don't laugh.

https://twitter.com/PeterDWindsor/st...503150592?s=09

while this seems unlikely i would like to see him try.

as Saward alludes to, BE 'abhors quiet electric cars and doesn’t want to become that kind of Mr E. He wants loud, noisy and dangerous machinery.'

if he does try this there is something very appealing about a v8/v10 series with little aero and other modern technical wizardry run by privateers and held at tracks that F1 wont or cant go to anymore.

get Ron and Flav on board, maybe snag a couple of soon to be retiring drivers like Alonso, Kimi, Massa, Button...nostalgia can be a powerful thing!

thinking about some of the other threads and the call for more support races...maybe this is something that Liberty should think about helping with as an event they could add to a GP weekend. it could help retain an older fan base that they risk losing in the face of the changes they plan on making.

[JeremySmith]

While I think competition is a good thing, I have to agree with Joe Saward are any large cooperations going to take Bernie seriously, take age out of the equation for a moment ...

[S griffin]

I can't see it going anywhere, he's already shown he doesn't get with the times, so there hardly gonna be queuing at the door for this one

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

I'm sure that will never happen.

The name Formula 1 is too big.

Actually, I think that the prestige of F1 is based on the big teams like Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and Mercedes.

[GORDON STREETER]

I think that it could well happen. Bernie has enough money to easily do it just to put some noses out of joint even if it fails !!!

[F1Guy]

Statement from Bernie Ecclestone.

“I wish to clear up the rumours that I am starting a series to compete against the FIA Formula 1 World Championship. I have built the Championship over the last near-50 years, which is something I am proud of, and the last thing I want is to see it damaged.

“The new owner of the company will be able to carry out the administration of the company in a different way to the way I had, which was to produce financial results for the shareholders, the normal actions of a chief executive. This, I have done for the different shareholders over the last years and also when I owned 100 percent of the company.

“I would have loved the luxury of what Chase Carey, the CEO, is able to do. I hope the F1 supporters appreciate this as Chase intends to put money back into the sport.

“I am very touched by the support and thanks that I have received from the people that I have dealt with over the years.”

[FormulaFox]

^ Can't help but notice he doesn't explicitly say it's not going to happen...

[JeremySmith]

Bernie is the king of mis direction, it's not going to happen ..

[S griffin]

According to Autosport, he has denied he will do it

[JeremySmith]

If Bernie were to come to the rescue of Manor then he would go down as a hero in most people's eyes ...
What else can he possibly do with all of that money ?

Not to say that he has not come to rescue before, he has on a few ocasions, Lotus being the most recent ..

[Paradise City]

Sure, if he wants to have a crack at it he can. I shall preserve my protest placards for other causes.

I think it's alot of old 'who-ha' in the words of Al Pacino. Certainly whatever project that slippery slob Flavio is doing, I'll have nuthin' to do with it.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Statement from Bernie Ecclestone.

"The new owner of the company will be able to carry out the administration of the company in a different way to the way I had, which was to produce financial results for the shareholders, the normal actions of a chief executive. This, I have done for the different shareholders over the last years and also when I owned 100 percent of the company.

“I would have loved the luxury of what Chase Carey, the CEO, is able to do. I hope the F1 supporters appreciate this.

It's not the first time that I have read this. Bernie has said before that he was told by the older owners to get profit no matter what.

Liberty is believed to want to grow F1 as a healthy, long-term business. It's the opposite of Bernie's old goals.

[chillibowl]

one question that never gets asked though is who had their money invested in CVC's F1 hedge fund?

rather CVC was just the manager of said hedge fund and given the unbelievable rates of return and the massive amount that was being pulling out of F1, i dont think its a stretch to think, given his relationship with CVC and FOM, that BE was one of the those investors.

if that was the case, then in addition to CVC being BE's boss via FOM management...as an investor in CVC, BE (or his family trusts) would have been (like all the other investors in the F1 hedge fund) one of CVC's bosses as well.

maybe a bit of tin foil hat time, but its entirely possible that those who once invested their money with CVC are also heavily leveraged in Liberty stocks...in effect leaving us with the very same group of investors ('owners') with the same demands for high rates of returns placed on CVC.

[Mike Harte]

chillibowl, the original investors in the purchase of F1 through CVC had their investments repaid a number of years ago - I'm afraid I don't recall exactly when - and that is why CVC have not been under any pressure to sell up as per their original contracts with the investors.

Mr E and Slavica Ecclestone's Bambino Trust are both independent shareholders in F, and I believe that they still retain shareholdings in the new Formula One Group.

But in effect, CVC itself has, over recent years, been the beneficial owner of F1.

[chillibowl]

in fairness, i dont know much about how CVC structured their investment in F1 for those who had bought into/invested in CVC's portfolio so no arguments from me on that.

my point was more about (and poorly explained) not knowing much about CVC's investors (other then what one would assume is a motive to see the best return on their investment) is no different to the approach (again i assume) that shareholders in Liberty have.

i guess when it comes down to it, while Liberty may be talking a great game, the cynical side of me just sees them as another investment vehicle that thinks F1 is being under monetized.

suffice it to say, this is not a thought that fills me with hope for the types of changes i would like to see happen. (which actually makes my point completely off topic for this thread...sorry)

[Yannick]

In the recent past, it's always been track owners and small teams who were most at odds with Bernie's business model of F1. Possibly, they have hopes now of being better off with Liberty than they were with Bernie previously.

So if a rival series "GP1" were to materialize, where would they get their teams from? Manor has just closed down. They won't run in either series. Maybe new teams could be attracted if customer cars were allowed. But could this become the "pinnacle of motorsport"? I don't think so, and Bernie and everyone else involved sure remembers the CART/IRL split of IndyCar and how that turned out for the overall popularity of the sport.

Besides, where would GP1 run their races at? The FIA sanctioning racetracks pretty much guarantees that no non-FIA approved series runs anywhere.

And that's when this train of thought of a breakaway series comes to an end. I mean you can't have series with just Ferrari on it. In the end, Marchionne's guys will realize that it's cheaper to give up some privileges and remain in F1 than going with a rival series.

Yet, all players probably want to try out now how much they can fool Liberty for their own benefits. Liberty now goes from the Paddock Club to the Piranha Club with no return ticket.

[Mekola]

I think there is in vain to even think about Bernie's rival series. F1 is F1, no matter who masters it.

[mark_l]

Put Bernie on a 5 year gardening leave, or Chairman Emeritus as it is called, and you might not have to worry about him setting up a rival series.

[justracing]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I think it's alot of old 'who-ha' in the words of Al Pacino. Certainly whatever project that slippery slob Flavio is doing, I'll have nuthin' to do with it.

Second that sentiment

[S griffin]

Interestingly now that Liberty has taken over, GP2 is looking like it will become the new FIA F2, when earlier Bernie said GP2 was better off without the FIA

[bella]

putting two and two together and getting nine, i reckon that name change suggests we'll see the end of gp3 in the next year or two. hopefully that'd make f3 more competitive again and bring back decent grid sizes.