Avon ACB10s

heel'n'toe-no · 24 Oct 2006, 12:27 (Ref:1747494)

Over here in the UK, the AVON ACB10 (Rip off) price has been a hot topic of late. So much for the affordable racing category that Ford intended back almost 40 years ago.

I have recently found out that AVON have a 3 year rolling contract with the Formula Ford contract.....So for at least 3 years we will need to continue using their tyres. YOKOHAMA and DUNLOP can produce tyres at a better price so why are we continually being ripped off by AVON..........My opinion - because it's a monopoly. If competition were introduced by ...say... 3 tyre manufacturers, we would sure benefit (Wouldn't we??) - Or put the next contract out to tender to 3 or 4 tyre manufacturers. The most cost effective tender winning the next 3 year contract.

Anyone got a set of "Almost" new ACB10's they want to sell? Need a reasonable set for the WHT and don't want to fork out £400+ just to have them sitting in the garage over the winter.

Redracer77 · 24 Oct 2006, 14:16 (Ref:1747629)

if you get to the final you will use a set up during the WHT

heel'n'toe-no · 24 Oct 2006, 16:47 (Ref:1747818)

Thats a big "if" Chris given my lack of running this season.

Will have to wait and see....Looks like I might need to put injectors in my road car and that would put an end to the WHT for me. MG piece of rubbish!!

Redracer77 · 24 Oct 2006, 16:49 (Ref:1747821)

Quote:

Originally Posted by heel'n'toe-no

Thats a big "if" Chris given my lack of running this season.

Will have to wait and see....Looks like I might need to put injectors in my road car and that would put an end to the WHT for me. MG piece of rubbish!!

Ill drive your car Lee

heel'n'toe-no · 24 Oct 2006, 17:04 (Ref:1747839)

Could be an option...call me, we'll discuss.

JohnMiller · 25 Oct 2006, 06:59 (Ref:1748475)

This thread isn't really about tyres or rent-a-drives - but on tyres the Aussies run their Duratecs on the ACB10s as opposed to slicks/wets.

Triple J Motorsport · 25 Oct 2006, 07:41 (Ref:1748514)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

This thread isn't really about tyres or rent-a-drives - but on tyres the Aussies run their Duratecs on the ACB10s as opposed to slicks/wets.

Wish duratecs ran on ACB10s in the UK. Be like FF1600 but with bullet proof engines all with very similar power.

**Asp** · 25 Oct 2006, 08:10 (Ref:1748544)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnMiller

This thread isn't really about tyres or rent-a-drives

Quite, so consider it split out

FranksWilde · 25 Oct 2006, 08:11 (Ref:1748546)

Quote:

Originally Posted by heel'n'toe-no

I have recently found out that AVON have a 3 year rolling contract with the Formula Ford contract.....So for at least 3 years we will need to continue using their tyres.

This usually means that the contract is initially for three years but once that has elapsed the contract rolles on with the same terms and conditions until it is cancelled, with the appropriate notice period, normaly 3 months.

Redracer77 · 25 Oct 2006, 08:31 (Ref:1748575)

I dont think the price of tyres is a big issue. £360 a set is not bad value in my opinion. Avon do attend most race meetings and fit and balance for free and they even swapped a number of sets around for me at the festival for no cost. If people have an issue with tyres they should be thinking more on the amount of tyres allowed per season not on the cost.

I know someone that used 5 sets of rubber at last years kent festival......

And I am sure there will be people at the WHT using a number of sets.

JohnMiller · 25 Oct 2006, 08:34 (Ref:1748580)

Spot on I think.

Avon give a good service at reasonable cost and I'm not sure you can realistically ask more of them.

If somebody did a tyre deal for £200/set then people would just use more sets IMO.

Walshy · 25 Oct 2006, 11:29 (Ref:1748831)

My sentiments exactly........

Although I don't think Brian agreed with me.....For obvious reasons....

Tim Draffan · 25 Oct 2006, 12:22 (Ref:1748914)

The qustion this thread does raise is who actually makes decisions about FF1600 regulations and how we the competitors can be involved with any decisions made, we are told it is Ford but the BRSCC seem to have an influence too?

jimbomit · 25 Oct 2006, 13:17 (Ref:1748975)

We've already been here.

Among several people I tried to do my little bit and get people to act in the case of the cranks but, although everyone is willing to air opinions here or verbally, very few will get off their backsides and take the action necessary to get a change.

Basically it's futile debating it, sorry but that's the truth. People are willing to bemoan about the BRSCC, AVON, MSA etc but that is all that will happen, all F**t and no Po@!

FranksWilde · 25 Oct 2006, 16:13 (Ref:1749115)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbomit

all F**t and no Po@!

What does that mean?

I don't know. Like Jim says everyone seams happy with the status quo. Perhaps people just like moaning. Or do they miss the point of what people are trying to do.

Even though people are brought together for a love of the sport they, and this is not everybody, are too busy defending their own corner. Having alternative suppliers is standard business practice, going out to tender is standard business practice. What are the BRSCC doing for their money? (and that is not everybody before Diz gets excited) The sport is supposed to be run for the benefit of its paying members.

If we ask the BRSCC to go out tender for tyres they should do. It does not mean AVON are doing a bad job and it does not mean that AVON will lose the contract, it just helps us get a good service, cheaper tyres and have more money to go racing. Does nobody else think that giving the same contract to the same supplier year in year out without even looking at alternatives is bonkers?

heel'n'toe-no · 25 Oct 2006, 18:32 (Ref:1749246)

It's crazy to just keep things as they are. Competition usually means cheaper prices, better products and better service. Without competition why do AVON have to try in any of those areas?

At worst competition brings similar service levels and similar pricing, but that just reassures the ones paying the bills (The drivers) that they are getting what they pay for and value for money in the market place.

As it stands there is no market place.

schnieder · 25 Oct 2006, 20:02 (Ref:1749338)

lee you dont need new tyres if you are a mid field runner my mate did a ni c'ship on two sets all year and won it and you know how good they are.
and it wasn't mr e. see you next week....

big ian

Mackmot · 26 Oct 2006, 01:17 (Ref:1749506)

This came up in a thread about a year ago, just after i went round the avon factory. The tyres for racing especially cross ply's are quite long work. It takes about 1hour40mins for each tyre to be made with about 6 going through at a time. Avon actually make only a few pound on each tyre after they take into account all the extra service they provide and the sponsorship they put back into the championships.

FranksWilde · 26 Oct 2006, 08:05 (Ref:1749681)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mackmot

This came up in a thread about a year ago, just after i went round the avon factory. The tyres for racing especially cross ply's are quite long work. It takes about 1hour40mins for each tyre to be made with about 6 going through at a time. Avon actually make only a few pound on each tyre after they take into account all the extra service they provide and the sponsorship they put back into the championships.

That's all very nice but again missing the point. If there is a contract to be awarded it should be tendered not just be handed out. Otherwise don't have a contract. I bet you wouldn't like it then.

Anyway a manufacturer telling you how much they make per tyre and you believe them.

Even if it is correct why do you naturally assume that their overheads etc are as low as they could be. It is a world economy after all. The latest freebee addition of racing watsit said to start learning to speak Mandarin because China is coming.

GlenF · 29 Oct 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1752908)

I like the idea of maximum number of tyres per championship. They are all numberd do should be easily checked. I did Castle Coombe this year on 1 set and managed a couple of reasonable results at the end of the season. This would then keep the price down for all of us.

Athgoe Racing · 29 Oct 2006, 22:04 (Ref:1753072)

In the southern champ here in Ireland we had 4 sets for the year and it worked out very well. Before that it was a set every race.

kartingdad · 29 Oct 2006, 22:34 (Ref:1753105)

What provisions did you have for wet races?

Its one thing to race on old tyres in the dry, but when its wet, and you are out of sync with a guy with new tyres, then you are at a speed/safety disadvantage.

I think you need a set of tyres you can nominate as your 'wet set' that don't count towards your normal allocation. Perhaps your series co-ordinator should rule what is a wet race and allow the 'wet set' to be used.

Poses a problem for the co ordinator if the weather is a bit marginal, but no more dodgy than not having a choice at all.

Pink Panther · 30 Oct 2006, 07:08 (Ref:1753287)

I would support a limit to the number of tyres per season. Tyre budget is a serious consideration for any driver. In Classic Formula Ford for example I would like to see a maximum of three sets. This kind of limit across the board would go a long way to reducing the costs of what is a club level sport. Has there been any discussion regarding implementing this in the UK?

Athgoe Racing · 30 Oct 2006, 08:12 (Ref:1753324)

If wet you could use any tyres you wanted.

carsten.meurer · 8 Nov 2006, 12:03 (Ref:1760808)

does the money handed back in sponsorship figure in the prices you have to pay in membership or entry fees ?
normally these contracts cost a fair bit to obtain...

for years i ask for the number of tires to be regulated !
after all europeans seem unable to choose a long lasting tire in any single tire
formula ! a tire is only choosen if it goes down after 3 laps, and is virtually
dead after 30...

for a series of 8 races, i would call 3 sets ! including all options !
it brings in strategie !
leave one fresh set as rain option as long as you can !
want to use a fresh set early on to boost performance on one track ?
you can, but you may suffer at the end of the year as a result !

also it rewards good clean driving and a well setup car ! that would be the big plus towards it for me !

i just fear if tires are limited, the price will go up accordingly.....

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