Fathers and Sons

Liz · 3 Feb 2004, 12:54 (Ref:861323)

Whenever you talk to people in Montreal about Jacques, they end the conversation with some variant of "He's not the man his father was."

When we talk about Mario Andretti, we invariably say the same about Mikey.

Has there ever been a case in which a son coming into racing after his dad has eclipsed his father?

sonic · 3 Feb 2004, 13:00 (Ref:861327)

there are loads - its just usually you haven't heard of the father!

e.g. John Button used to be a fairly successful rally cross driver.

But the one that springs to mind for me is Colin McRae - completely outclassed his dads achievements.

Hungary 89 · 3 Feb 2004, 13:03 (Ref:861335)

In terms of Race wins (Though not championships)Damon Hill

And my gut feel is that Damon was a better driver than his father.

On saying that in terms of ability I don't think there is much between Gilles and Jacques the difference is in the way they went about their racing

Gilles never felt the need to play the mind games that Jacques does which causes people to hold a higher affection for him.

Wrex · 3 Feb 2004, 13:08 (Ref:861343)

Quote:

Originally posted by sonic
there are loads - its just usually you haven't heard of the father!

That was my first thought as well

I think Valentino Rossi's dad raced bikes.

BSchneiderFan · 3 Feb 2004, 13:08 (Ref:861344)

Possibly Hans-Joachim Stuck?

Pitbabe · 3 Feb 2004, 13:23 (Ref:861364)

For what it's worth - my thoughts are:

Hill - Damon probably was better than Graham, but I know that this is a controversial view.

Rossi - Vale's Dad (Graziano) did race bikes, and for sure Vale is MUCH better.

McRae - Agree that Colin is much better than his Dad.

Villeneuves - Jacques is better on paper (having won a WDC)than Gilles, but somehow that statement feels wrong.

Andretti - Mario by a mile.

Can't think of anyone else I can comment on.

BSchneiderFan · 3 Feb 2004, 13:26 (Ref:861368)

Of course, there are several duos on whom the jury is still out;

Rosberg - Keke and Nico
Piquet - Nelson and Nelson Angelo
Lauda - Niki and Mathias
Prost - Alain and Nicolas
Earnhardt - Dale (RIP) and Dale Jr.

You could argue that Al Unser Jr. was a better driver than his dad.

NiceGuyEddie · 3 Feb 2004, 13:47 (Ref:861392)

Christian Fittipaldi any better than Wilson Fittipaldi?

Red · 3 Feb 2004, 14:37 (Ref:861423)

Quote:

Originally posted by BSchneiderFan
Of course, there are several duos on whom the jury is still out;

Hmm, add Hugo Hakkinen and Mick Schumacher to the list?

jj2728 · 3 Feb 2004, 15:25 (Ref:861459)

antonio (father) and alberto (son) ascari.......

BootsOntheSide · 3 Feb 2004, 15:34 (Ref:861468)

Franz Wurz was a rallycross champion, so comparisons can't really be made with Alex. Jackie Stewart was arguably better than Paul. John Andretti outstripped Aldo's achievements as well.

Mal · 3 Feb 2004, 18:14 (Ref:861631)

Quote:

Originally posted by Hungary 89

On saying that in terms of ability I don't think there is much between Gilles and Jacques the difference is in the way they went about their racing

Gilles never felt the need to play the mind games that Jacques does which causes people to hold a higher affection for him.

I am sorry but that is wrong imo. Gilles was a faster and more talented driver than Jacques and indeed arguably anyone else in history. Gilles managed to win in cars that were vastly inferior to the oposition (Monaco and Spain in particular)

Liz · 3 Feb 2004, 18:26 (Ref:861639)

I must admit I had no idea so many sons had followed so many fathers into racing. I remembered that Servia's father was a rally racer, but until this year's Dakar I didn't realize that the Servia driving the Schlesser Buggy was his uncle.

Incidentally, Mario has recently said in a local interview that he believes Mikey never wanted to race at all, but felt that he had to; that is why he was such a crank and why he retired "so young". I find that intriguing and I wonder what Mikey would say if I could find somebody who didn't hold him in contempt to ask him.

Kicking-back · 3 Feb 2004, 18:33 (Ref:861652)

The suggestion that "Jackie Stewart was arguably better than Paul" is a major understatement.

I can't imagine anyone - even Paul - arguing the reverse!

NiceGuyEddie · 3 Feb 2004, 21:52 (Ref:861867)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mal
I am sorry but that is wrong imo. Gilles was a faster and more talented driver than Jacques and indeed arguably anyone else in history. Gilles managed to win in cars that were vastly inferior to the oposition (Monaco and Spain in particular)

Gilles is famous for his driving, Jacques for mouthing off in the press....

Jordi · 3 Feb 2004, 21:58 (Ref:861873)

Come on, even Mosley says he'll miss Jacques...
It's not mouthing off, it's being not a clone...

Gilles and Jacques are more similar than people think.

NiceGuyEddie · 3 Feb 2004, 22:08 (Ref:861883)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi

Gilles and Jacques are more similar than people think.

Sure, apart from the fact that Gilles didn't mouth off to the press (and certainly wasn't a clone of anyone) and was simpy sensational behind the wheel of a racingcar. Jacques is a good driver, at best.

Jordi · 3 Feb 2004, 22:22 (Ref:861900)

No, he's a great. Anyone who wins F1, CART and Indy 505 (remember he was penalized 2 laps) can't be just good.

More traits that are similar between Gilles and Jacques is easily just how they always got in their cars, even after the worst of crashes.

NiceGuyEddie · 3 Feb 2004, 22:29 (Ref:861914)

I don't want to make this into the next JV-bash-topic, but in terms of history Jacques is just nowhere near his father. IMHO that is.

BSchneiderFan · 3 Feb 2004, 22:49 (Ref:861945)

There does seem a preponderance of older generation racers being better than their offspring. Think of the Pettys; Richard has the edge over Lee, sure, but Kyle can't be compared with his dad, and Adam, well, sadly, we'll never know now. The Andrettis, Hills, Stewarts and Villeneuves have already been mentioned, as have the Unsers. The Foyts seem to follow the same pattern; if AJ Foyt IV is anything like as good as granddad, he's hiding it awfully well at the moment. One could also cite Dan and Alex Gurney, and, though less starkly, the Brabhams; David, Geoff and Gary haven't got three F1 world championships to their names.

corkholio · 3 Feb 2004, 22:53 (Ref:861951)

Well, Jensen Timberlake must be a legend in waiting since he beat a great.

As for Mosley, is that the same guy who said Kimi wouldn't have been a deserving champion?

It is interesting to note that Mosley cared more about JVil's mouth than he did about his driving.

As for what they meant to the sport, there is no doubt that Gilles wins in this department.

Here is another one: Phil Hill's son Derek has been toying around support categories for years now with little success.

BSchneiderFan · 3 Feb 2004, 23:06 (Ref:861975)

Had quite forgotten Derek Hill. Can't think how... we could stretch a point and include Juan Fangio II (a nephew, I know, but still); Vanina Ickx, not yet reaching her father's heights, though Jacky's dad also raced, IIRC, less successfully than his son; I think there is a Belgian father-and-son duo by the name of Martin, but I don't know a great deal about them; Derek and Justin Bell, of course.

**Bononi** · 3 Feb 2004, 23:06 (Ref:861977)

Quote:

Originally posted by NiceGuyEddie
Christian Fittipaldi any better than Wilson Fittipaldi?

Nope.

Wilson was a successful driver in stock cars... and Christian is/was ????

BSchneiderFan · 3 Feb 2004, 23:12 (Ref:861982)

Thought: is Patrick Bourdais Sebastien's dad?

**Adam43** · 3 Feb 2004, 23:13 (Ref:861983)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bononi
and Christian is/was ????

a recent Daytona 24 hours winner!

To be fair I am a fan of anyone with the name Fittipaldi.

Quote:

Originally posted by Liz
I must admit I had no idea so many sons had followed so many fathers into racing.

Well I always berated my Dad for not being a F1 driver, so unfair

Having said that I did follow my Dad into racing. I started my first race only a couple of hours after my Dad finished his first race! Although I did get my racing licence a few hours before!

Sons or fathers better? Well I'll have to call it a draw. I couldn't think of a better team mate for those enduros though

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