What future for F1?

jonboyG · 17 Sep 2004, 14:43 (Ref:1099390)

Lets face it, things are looking far from good for the pinnacle of motorsport right now.

Between de Montezemelo and Todt making noises about GPWC, no clear engine rules next season, Ford taking their ball and going home, Minardi and Jordan strapped for cash and engineless, How long before F1 goes the way of CART?

Kicking-back · 17 Sep 2004, 14:56 (Ref:1099409)

F1 is much stronger than Champ Car ever was.

The current difficulties will be beneficial long-term as people realise things need to be addressed.

GPWC will fade away - in fact Bernie apparently may be using that to lower the value of F1 so he can buy control back from the banks.

The engine issue is now being dealt with seriously.

F1 has had ups and downs over fifty years but it is still by far the most popular motor-racing in the world.

luke · 17 Sep 2004, 15:01 (Ref:1099415)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
GPWC will fade away - in fact Bernie apparently may be using that to lower the value of F1 so he can buy control back from the banks.

I havn't fought of it like that acturly untill your reply.

ActiveMS · 17 Sep 2004, 15:04 (Ref:1099417)

Todays announcement will hopefully bring F1 back to earth. This is what Max et al wanted. It is not the end but perhaps a way to bring about the much required change to such an over valued part of motorsport..... by using a much needed bulldozer.

The knock on effects can only be good in the long term.

jonboyG · 17 Sep 2004, 15:16 (Ref:1099435)

Isn't Bernie in the middle of a lawsuit with some creditors from one of the last 3 times he sold F1?

touringcarnut · 17 Sep 2004, 16:37 (Ref:1099512)

This is a kick that might get the cost cutting to actually bite, and have an effect at significantly reducing the costs that are getting way out of hand.

ralf fan · 17 Sep 2004, 19:30 (Ref:1099659)

Hopefully the team owners realise that cost cutting is vital and can finally agree on the rules...
we need new teams in f1 .. a month back it was to freashen things up... now a new team is a necessity...

im still hopeful that someone will buy the JAG project... not a bad place to start for a new team.. Jag were a steady midfield team!

Armco Bender · 17 Sep 2004, 20:57 (Ref:1099715)

Things are looking good for Minardi,if they can find an engine ,they will be qualifing 15-16 on the grid next season and could get in the points regularly.

Other than that, F3 is looking pretty good to become the premier motorsport catergory quite soon.

RWC · 17 Sep 2004, 23:01 (Ref:1099818)

Frankly i don't care anymore!!

Bernie can go to jail for illegal business practices,Max can be assasinated (choose a reason from many) and finally get the huge media attention he craves,f1 can collapse and i just wouldn't give a sh*t.It would be an enormouse relief!!!
Then we could start again without ferrari's political dominance/financial demands,no tobbaco advertising and a fresh set of rules that allow teams to build cars that are (at least partly)relevant to what we want in the future

And once and for all we could seperate the drivers championship from the constructors championship!All drivers (selected from a pool) drive for all teams during the year

**Adam43** · 17 Sep 2004, 23:09 (Ref:1099820)

Bernie, illegal business practices.

I think they've all been above board, which is why he is so good. Stayed around a lot and introduced people like Sid to F1.

Armco Bender · 17 Sep 2004, 23:13 (Ref:1099824)

Quote:

And once and for all we could seperate the drivers championship from the constructors championship!All drivers (selected from a pool) drive for all teams during the year

..In Holdens and Fords.............

**Adam43** · 18 Sep 2004, 11:36 (Ref:1100080)

A few weeks ago we were all taking about new teams coming into F1. Now we are assuming every team is going to leave. I suspect that the real situation will be somewhere in the middle. Ford are gone, but I suspect the others will stay for the short and medium term. Although I suspect changes and tweaks. Different owners, engines, etc...

All this coincides with rule changes, what will that bring?

JGM · 18 Sep 2004, 19:30 (Ref:1100306)

I'm not particularly optimistic about the future of F1. It has become a multi-million dollar activity which is now defined as an international 'business'rather than a sport and consequently all that matters is its ability to generate profits. The logical way to do this is to continually reduce the unpredicable and unreliable variables and to standardise everything so that at each event the punter gets a predictable 'product'. Eventually we'll end up with something like professional wrestling

pole2pole · 18 Sep 2004, 19:49 (Ref:1100317)

If formula one was a bath filled with water Ford was the plug. That plug has been pulled. Who is going to fix it..............?

F40_LM · 19 Sep 2004, 19:08 (Ref:1101277)

...Ferrari...seriously, as the team with the largest resources and money and clout on the grid, as well as boasting a rich and longest history in F1, they should at least take the initiative to shape up F1 by donating resources or engines to the smaller teams like Minardi, can't they even help their own (Italian) team? and Mclaren could help out Jordan too while we're at it, I know the big boys don't like giving handouts but they'd be fools to ignore the growing threat of F1's collapse.

raul_iulian · 19 Sep 2004, 19:18 (Ref:1101291)

F40 - u are right!

Gt_R · 20 Sep 2004, 02:20 (Ref:1101551)

While i agree that big teams need to look after the privateer teams, i don't really agree with F40. Firstly, Ferrari didn't create a problem. Mclaren Williams did not create a problem.

And it's quite ridiculous to demand them to "donate" resources/engines...more so just because they share the same nationality.

Pardon me, but F1 isn't charity. There's a need, indeed, to ensure and aid the survival of the small players. And in a way, Ferrari did their part by the sale of competitve engines, even gearboxs/transmission, to another team, or 2, where required.

And that is what other manufacturers should start doing. Forget about donating, teams like Minardi and Jordan would be happy if BMW, Mercedes, Toyota would even sell them engines cheap.

Unfortunately, some teams are just too selfish to do that.

Small teams suffer most because of their lack of competitiveness. All they need is a tidy boost to their performance and they would be capable to survive.

touringcarnut · 20 Sep 2004, 04:43 (Ref:1101597)

I don't think teams should be helping other teams, other than purely on a selling basis. F1 is supposed to be the high profile and the most competitive series, not something where teams are not truly rivals as they help each other out..

Cynic · 20 Sep 2004, 06:48 (Ref:1101631)

IMO The problem's in F1 have been partly created by out of control manufacturer investment, but if that disappeared things would get worse. Although they are probably only doing it to scare more money out of Bernie, what would happen if all the manufacturers simultaneously left? Well, first off, no Renault, Toyota, or Ferrari, and probably no Sauber as their car is practically last years Ferrari anyway. Maclaren, Williams and BAR are now left paying for their engines since the likes of Judd and Mugen can't afford to give them away, and they now have less money to do it since they don't have the sort of finance they normally get from being associated with the manufacturers. And since the general tone of this and other threads is that the "small" teams have no right to be there if they're not competitive, lets assume they aren't. So now we have three teams who are contractually obliged to field 20 cars between them. Except now they don't have the money. And since hell will freeze over before Bernie starts handing out refunds to promoters, the only solution would be to bring in GP2 as a class B. Except Meccachrome (aka Renault) don't want anything to do with F1. Oh dear.......

Hopefully Jag's withdrawal will be the wake up call the sport needs to get it's house on order, and do something to ensure the survival of independent teams. The best solution I think is to reduce the $50 million or whatever it is that teams have to pay to enter. I don't think it should be scrapped completely, as I don't have any desire to see the likes of Forti or Andrea Moda again, but it's clear that there are people waiting in the wings who are prepared to participate, but see the bond as the biggest obstacle.

F40_LM · 20 Sep 2004, 17:11 (Ref:1102181)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R
While i agree that big teams need to look after the privateer teams, i don't really agree with F40. Firstly, Ferrari didn't create a problem. Mclaren Williams did not create a problem.

And it's quite ridiculous to demand them to "donate" resources/engines...more so just because they share the same nationality.

Pardon me, but F1 isn't charity. There's a need, indeed, to ensure and aid the survival of the small players. And in a way, Ferrari did their part by the sale of competitve engines, even gearboxs/transmission, to another team, or 2, where required.

And that is what other manufacturers should start doing. Forget about donating, teams like Minardi and Jordan would be happy if BMW, Mercedes, Toyota would even sell them engines cheap.

Unfortunately, some teams are just too selfish to do that.

Small teams suffer most because of their lack of competitiveness. All they need is a tidy boost to their performance and they would be capable to survive.

yes that is exactly my point about the big boys helping out the smaller teams - granted, Ferrari already has Sauber, and if you happened to pay attention to my post i did mention the likes of Mclaren Mercedes as well, they could sell 2yr old engines for a pittance to Jordan, now that would be a donation compared to their total cost expenditure in a season. Don't always assume i disagree with you on every topic GT-R

In my opinion F1 is too much dependant on the cost to develop a car throughout the season hence I am a firm believer in the need to cut testing costs - if there is now less money coming into the sport by way of sponsorhips, shouldn't the current level of financing be checked as well? Testing and development costs are going up while sponsorhip money is coming down. There's something seriously wrong if your budget is easily three times another team's but your car is only faster by half a second. And for goodness sake, we can pay the drivers less if all they say is how much they enjoy racing and money is not the issue blah blah, soon they'll realise they have to take a pay-cut too because of the economy

stoned pony · 22 Sep 2004, 23:19 (Ref:1104442)

F1 has been a waste of time for years and these latest moves (by Jaguar/Ford especially) show that someone is showing a bit of sense.
Give me a Formula Ford race any day, anywhere and I'll guarantee it will be far more enjoyable than aqnything F1 has thrown-up in the last decade.

jj2728 · 23 Sep 2004, 00:07 (Ref:1104474)

Quote:

Originally posted by stoned pony
F1 has been a waste of time for years and these latest moves (by Jaguar/Ford especially) show that someone is showing a bit of sense.
Give me a Formula Ford race any day, anywhere and I'll guarantee it will be far more enjoyable than aqnything F1 has thrown-up in the last decade.

i would suggest that you actually attend a f1 race and then make a comparison between the 2 series..if your opinion isn't changed then i guess formula ford is the series for you....

Trev Campbell · 23 Sep 2004, 00:48 (Ref:1104491)

F1 definatly need cost cutting measures. But I find it strange that the first thing the FIA propose is a totally ne engine formula. Manufacturers will spend Millions on the development of a 2.4 litre V8. Then if they have to onsell them to the smaller teams to recoup some of the expense the price would be massively high for the smaller teams.

I think the biggest money saver would be the limit the amount of testing that can be done to 2 cars each with 20 days per year.

stoned pony · 23 Sep 2004, 03:42 (Ref:1104549)

jj2728, I've been working in and around motorsport for 16 years and attending races for a whole lot longer. F1, CART, various touring car championships, FF, F Vee, Sprintcars and other speedway classes.
I stand by what I said. FF racing (as an example)is always good, hard, close racing and it is the competition and excitement I go for, not to see the stars race.
In fact one of the best race meetings I have ever attended was the Formula Ford Festival at Brand Hatch.

Wrex · 23 Sep 2004, 04:06 (Ref:1104553)

Stoned, I wont disagree with you at all the 'racing' is better in other categories than F1. Always has been, always will be.

F1 (as much as people wish it was different) is'nt about wheel-to-wheel nail biting finishes. Its about the fastest cars in the world piloted by the (and I use the term loosely) best drivers in the world.

Formula Vee racing is brilliant to watch also, but 300million people are'nt tuning into see it every fortnight either.

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