Driving Standards

[terje]

As driver's move from one championship to another their reputation doesn't always follow them, for example, a young driver who has just joined the British ASCAR series recently put his own team mate in hospital after tipping him into a high-speed spin at Rockingham, the same driver took several cars with him into the gravel at the FF festival last year also giving himself concustion for his efforts. It seems whatever championship some driver's enter they cause damage and injury to either themselves or others, isn't it about time that the MSA had a form of criminal/permanent record for this kind of driving, one that proceeds that driver into a new championship?

[Woolley]

Interesting thread, which matches up with the "Marshal's register" that we all carry. Simply, a list of drivers who you expect to be collecting out of a wall or gravel trap in the future! If we all know about them (and comparing different marshals' lists you often find the same names cropping up again and again) you would assume someone else does too. Perhaps the series co-ordinators could compare notes or have a school report type of system?

[Dangerous Dave]

....im glad someone has brought this point up at last, and i can figure out which driver they are talking about! There needs to be some kind of system to log drivers movement if they have been up in front of the clerk for there driving before. When i was Karting there was always a couple of drivers that would cause damage on a regular basis and nothing was ever done, the same happens in cars, at a greater cost!!

[Tim Falce]

If he or they are that bad, do they not get an endorsement on their licence, or does said person not get caught?

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by terje
As driver's move from one championship to another their reputation doesn't always follow them, for example, a young driver who has just joined the British ASCAR series recently put his own team mate in hospital after tipping him into a high-speed spin at Rockingham, the same driver took several cars with him into the gravel at the FF festival last year also giving himself concustion for his efforts. It seems whatever championship some driver's enter they cause damage and injury to either themselves or others, isn't it about time that the MSA had a form of criminal/permanent record for this kind of driving, one that proceeds that driver into a new championship?

He needs sorting out (and I think he may be). He has more money than sense and, undoubtedly, more cash than skill...

I know of at least one driver from last year's festival who was mighty p*ssed off with his driving...

[EvilPumpkin]

As Woolley said, most marshals who deal with the same classes regularly will have a mental list of drivers they're most likely to be meeting in a professional capacity - or to keep an eye on for infringements in cases where the marshals are responsible for reporting them. I'm sure racing clubs have the same - and indeed drivers as well.

I think the problem is definining what constitutes a "bad driver" and what is "dangerous driving". Sometimes it's easy of course - but not always. There's a fine line between defending your line and weaving all over the track and causing an accident. And all the definitions are subjective, based on participant and witness reports. It's not like you can say "ok he went this fast, in this direction, this far away from another driver and therefore he is outside the standard for this racing line and driving dangerously". Occasionally, you get something that is so blatent, you don't get any argument. But that would tend to be the exception, rather than the rule. I've seen a few incidents where what to me was a totally clear cut case of dangerous driving, to someone else was a "racing incident". Some of these incidents happened a couple of years ago and we still argue over them!

Unofficial track may be kept of these things, but officially, it's a legal nightmare. If you are going to keep a record on a driver and use it to prove them "unfit to drive/race" or constituting a danger to themselves or others, you'd better be very well prepared to prove it - and to have a yardstick that you can measure their performance against. Even that may not protect you from legal action these days.

I agree that something should be done - anything that is a danger to driver safety needs to be carefully examined - I just don't think it's as clear cut as we might like it to be.

[RMR]

But surely thats why on the back of our licenses we have the endorsement and points system? I just think there it needs to be stricter. There is a valid point above which comes up alot, that some drivers with more money spare do drive more aggressively, Rules are rules and I think officials don't adhere to them as tightly as they should. Maybe more observers is the answer? I just know there are certain people I see enter a race and I just know theres a good chance that when I look at the results there will be a DNF next to their name and probably a handful of others.

[Stephen Green]

I will answer this as an Observer. First of all I have to say that as Observers we don't always see everything. We may be watching the aftermath of a 'spun and continued' while the next accident is happening! We don't have eyes in the back of our heads. Having said that, I feel it is the duty of all marshals on my post to report any dangerous driving that I may have missed. I will then make a written report to the C of the C which is handed in at the end of each session/race.

Trackside marshals have no input from then on, unless there is a judicial enquiry or, we are asked by the Clerk for our opinion. ie, was it deliberate or a racing incident. It is up to the Stewards to pronounce judgement and to issue an endorsement or fine on the driver if they feel he/she has transgressed the rules.

One last point. In the case of persistent offenders, the Clerk of the Course may well mention at the Observers briefing that he would like us to pay close attention to the driving standards of car no whatever. We in turn would keep a close eye on that driver in both practice and race format and report any misdemeanours to race control.

I hope this clears some of the points you may have regarding the marhalling aspect?

[brickkicker]

Maybe more observers is the answer?

Do you mean driving standards observers or marshal type observers

[Bostik]

I guess this works in the other direction too, terje.
If all drivers had to carry a sort of Race Report Card, then perhaps the likes of ASCAR's John Mickel could have been more circumspect about his selection of team-mate.

[Bob Pearson]

John Mickel's team mate had all the criteria for selection, he is fast and has money. I will leave you to decide which point carried the most weight.

[Stephen Green]

I think it wise if we refrain from naming specific drivers as it may lead to legal action...sorry guys.