Regional Or National Club Racing

[andy97]

I know that there will be many people around who wish to race in high profile series and/or at a great variety of venues on a national basis and that is fine but I also think that there are great many series that could be combined and run on a regional basis in order to cut the costs and time involved in competing. I know that FF 1600 runs on a regional basis and that there are several other clubs with regional series but I am staggered that this is not the template for more club racing series.

As an example a typical regional meeting could run races for minis/stock/hot hatches; Saloons and sports cars (with classes for various states of mods); Kit cars and "Locaterfields"; racing sports cars and GTs (radicals, LM 3000's, Vauxhall Supersports, K-Series Clubmans and the like), FF 1600 and Monoposto/ F4. Combine this with a couple of saloon/ sports and F Libre allcomers races and the end and you'd have a cracking meeting I reckon.

It may even be that this sort of regional event (or parts of it) could run on a mid week evening. At the end of the year a series of "festivals" could be run for each of the race types to run against each other and people would also get a bit of variety, an awayday etc.

This sort of event may even make it easier to attract regional sponsorship for both events and the competitor, after all what local business wants to sponsor anyone who they can realistically only support once or twice a year.

Any thoughts?

[Rod Birley]

This is something I have suggested to the BRSCC for several years. Eventually they agreed to run the Southern sports and saloon car series with the BARC S/E, but have shown a distinct lack of support and promotion. At Brands last year there were enough cars for TWO races on the GP circuit, so we know the competitor interest is there. Mind you they alienated a lot of people by postponing Saturday,s race until the Sunday, thus making these drivers have to find overnight accomodation at the last minute.

[R59]

Andy97, and Rod..

I've been a supporter of this sort of approach for a long time.

Even though I'm running in a high profile National A grade series this year, I still feel that we should go back the blue book, dump ALL of the existing championships, including TOCA. and run NO one-make championships. Let the manufacturers put the money into supporting the people who choose to run their cars.

We should have:

FFord, F3, and F-Libre/F5000

Prod-Saloons, Mod-Saloons, Special-Saloons

Prod-sports, Mod-sports, Special-Sports/GT's

They could all be run on a regional basis. Towards the end of the year, the best in each region go forward to a national final.

You therefore have something that is marketable, and easy to understand.

The blue book makes rules simple.

So simple, it wouldn't work because everyone wants to do their own thing, and the BRSCC will run it for you. Then if it's successful, meddle with the rules and destroy it.

Rob.

[AndyF]

Castle Combe's own saloon, sports & FFOrd championships are all very successful so I don't see why it can't work elsewhere!

[Rod Birley]

We all know this and keep telling the clubs/organisers but why won't anyone listen. As Marcus Pye wrote: "The time for changes is NOW, listen to what your members/customers are saying and stop haemorrhaging money supporting naff series".

[ss_collins]

There are enough Vees around to run the odd regional vee race... 12 vees at Lydden? could be fun. You'd only need to talk two teams into it.

[andy97]

Rod, racing 59 etc

How do we make people listen? There is obviously some interest in regional racing judging just from the replies received to this thread in a very short time. The BARC Midlands centre organised the Plum Pudding bash at Mallory last Boxing Day (their first foray in to car racing, I think) - perhaps they could be persuaded to adopt the BARC-SEC format and organise a few more races at Mallory. Combine things with Karting and Bikes, if thats what gets the punters in, and you'd have a great day.

[kickstart]

I agree that there is a desperate need for a thorough shake up of club/national racing - being far too many series with 1/2 grids. However, from a purely personal perspective I enjoy wandering round the country going from circuit to circuit. For me part of the enjoyment is getting away for the weekend and racing on circuits that I like.
Hence lets amalgamate any racing series with less than 75% of a full grid with something similar and try and produce a decent spectacle.

[Snapper Baz]

Here's what I'd do...have a tin-top festival on a theme...5 minutes of practice (not qualifying)...grids positions picked out of a hat to make it more than interesting for everybody...then 15 minutes of racing. Not 10 mins of qual/race as it is now...bit like they tried some years ago (racing forward wasnt it?).

[Cameron Winton]

What you are all suggesting is very sensible - I am absolutely dismayed at the mess that UK club/national racing is in at the moment.
It is worthwhile noting that what you all are proposing already has precedence. The SCCA in the US already has a similar system with a regional championships feeding bigger national events like the Road America June Sprints and the Run-Offs at the end of the year.
Also, the class system is much more structured such that someone from Wisconsin could go to an event at Lime Rock (a distance of 1000 miles!) and compete legally with equivalent cars. Also, the class structure is such that cars get re-classified as the get older. I have seen cars like MG Midgets that have been run competitively by the same person for around 20 years.
The trouble is it's such a huge change that the powers that be are probably a bit scared - It will need something big going wrong to make it happen (BRSCC going bust?)

[greenamex2]

Snapper Baz - Can't remember the last time I only had 10 minutes of practice then 10 minutes of race. We usually get 15 minutes of each at BARC meetings. Otherwise I accept your point and it was "Racing ahead" and the grid positions were still based on qualifying times. I thought it worked really well and we only got one race cut short due to the comparitive lack of 'slack time' being absorbed by car retrievals etc. As it was caused be two of our drivers anyway I can't really complain.

kickstart - 75%+75%=150%=a lot of 'reserves'. Otherwise I agree more merging needs to be done and both the BARC and BRSCC do seem to be taking heed. The new BRSCC catch all Saloon series is a good move, a class for everything with a roof, and even some cars without and kit cars. Looking at the number of qualifiers for some of the early races this year there is still plenty of scope for merging series or running races in parallel, I just hope the clubs don't wait until next year to do it.

Cameron - Love the idea of having consistent regulations. If a country as vast as the states can manage it then why can't the UK!!!

[Rod Birley]

OK, something might be happening. Last night the BARC proposed a regional challenge, following an idea from myself and Les Beer. Phone calls have been made to the BRSCC today and hopefully this will happen. More details when they become available guys.

[PTs Bro]

Hoorah.....At last someone has taken note of and is starting to act on a sensible idea, we can only hope that this will be a catalyst for fundamental change that will not be smothered by "the suits" who are afraid of what it might mean to them.

Well done Rod & Les for suggesting the idea......Is it possible that the racers, marshals and spectators who subscribe to ten tenths could form a group to promote ideas,change and unity that the clubs could be influenced by?

I get the impression that any change will be from the ground up in which case moderately widespread support will need to be displayed in order to push it through and manage it correctly and constructively.

[greenamex2]

What is this new 'challenge' going to replace, or are you really talking about yet another series to dilute entries further?

[Rod Birley]

The challenge will replace cancelled meetings, yes its true. The BARC S/E centre have realised that there is no point in putting on a meeting if competitor interest is non existant or low. The number of drivers supporting and travelling to far away national events is declining rapidly for all sorts of reasons which have been discussed on these forums. So the time to act is now, before the clubs run out of money.

[vaughan jones]

We tend to discuss problems with national and club car racing,does bike racing have the same problems?I have noticed that over the years the large number of clubmans events that Snetterton ran have gone. Do the bike racers know something we dont. In the 80,s Snett. had bike racing,every sat/sun/bank hol.(except for car days) from mar. to oct.I am sure the bar must miss the takings??

[Dave Brand]

Originally posted by vaughan jones
We tend to discuss problems with national and club car racing,does bike racing have the same problems?

I marshal both bikes & cars. From where I stand, club bike racing is very healthy. A typical club bike meeting will run 20-plus races, all with full grids (usually, each class gets two races). Lots of races & full grids helps keep entry fees down.

The question of national versus regional championships doesn't really arise, as the smaller clubs tend to be more localised, running meetings at one or two local circuits - there's a sort of natural progression from small, local clubs to bigger, less regional ones.

Do the bike racers know something we dont.

I think they do! One of the key differences between a car race meeting & bike race meeting, from the marshalling point of view, is the sense of urgency which exists at a bike race meeting. Maybe it's because the competitors are seen as the most important people at a race meeting.......

[Tony_Simpson]

What about our friends in Europe, do they have lots of regional championships, or more national based ones. I keep hearing that entry fees are lower, for one, but why is this??, are they better run, less races more cars????

Thing is the MSA should be taking more of a role in the championships, they seem to be saying there is need for change, but as the govening body (they are in overall charge of things are they not???) they should be pushing things along, and possibly forcing the changes a bit, telling some series to merge with another???. Saying is one thing action is another.

We are talking in this forum but is they any one in the major clubs/organisers talking to each other looking at what chmpionships they are running and getting good grids for the spectators/drivers or are they more interested in there own clubs profits.

Anyway rant over for a while.

[JimW]

Originally posted by Cameron Winton
. . . It is worthwhile noting that what you all are proposing already has precedence. The SCCA in the US already has a similar system with a regional championships feeding bigger national events like the Road America June Sprints and the Run-Offs at the end of the year.. . .

But I suspect that their "regions" might be about the size of the UK - at least.

-----

It sems to me that the key question (for club level and national championships) is "How do we get full grids?" I suspect that lots of drivers want to win the race overall and not just their class. This tends to make those starting as Class B+ or, perhaps worse, those starting on a delayed, second grid, feel less highly rewarded/regarded.

So fewer meetings, fewer types of racing?

Jim