1977 IROC Camaro Race car info needed.

[Al Weyman]

Hi,

Don't know if anyone can help here but I am the (proud?) owner of one of the original 15 Camaros built and run by Penske racing for the Internation Race Of Championship in the US. The car is #11 and is based around a Banjo Matthews Stockcar chassis and was imported to this country in the 80's by Brian Rice. It was last raced in IROC by Buddy Baker the outright NASCAR record holder and was driven by many famous F1 and NASCAR drivers in the 70's.

I am attempting to rebuild the car back to it's former glory and maybe give it a run out a few times and hopefully at Goodwood Festival of Speed. Only problem I need some rear end shots of the car in detail and/or any other info or pictures of the car. If anyone has anything please PM me.

[Ol'_Motorhead]

I came up with an article in Road & Track (Jan.'78) titled "IROC V" that mentions "... features a fleet of new Cameros (short-track oval racers built by Banjo Matthews) ..." Sadly , the only photo is a front shot of Al Unser and Richard Petty at Riverside, Ca. I'll try scanning it and sending it to you. Forget attaching it here, I've never managed to do that yet. No doubt I've got other articles and/or photos but they seem to be eluding my searching at the moment! Cheers.

[Al Weyman]

Thanks for that Motorhead it is really appreciated, I have an old photocopy of a Road & Track article and funny enough the car was stickered up as car #11 but I can't tell it it is mine or not as it is black and white, sounds like a different article than yours though, mine is the beige (not the best colour but there you go) about 4 cars back from Andretti in the GM poster from the era I am going to try to attach. OK it did not work, I will try the other way!

[Al Weyman]

Lets try again.



Mine is the beige car.

[Al Weyman]

Here is a picture of the car as I bought it 5 or 6 years ago before I took it apart.
Note the fairings aroud the window aperture added over here, fortunately when I took them off al the original ally work is uderneath ad they were only pop rivited on..

[Al Weyman]

Incidently Motorhead during my attempts to post the picture it seems that it will only accept files up to 600dpi max at the longest length (hieght or width) and at 72dpi, this is quite normal on these type of boards (nice software actually), so just resize you image to this and you should be able to post images fine by just usig the browsw button at thew foot of the page and navigating to the file on your hard drive.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Al,

I have a photo of Brian Rice's car during an ASCAR race in 1984, if it's any use.

I have one of your Camaro in April 1991 at Donington - Since I haven't got the photo to hand (All my photos are logged in a database), was this a different car?

[Al Weyman]

Sorry my previous post I was half asleep that should have read maximum size of 600pixels not dpi and I do this stuff for a living(duh).

I would like to see those photos Jeremy, I think Brian bought two cars into the country and as I understand it one went back to the states. That may have been the one that IROC renovated for their 25th anniversary at Daytona but I am not sure.

[gfm]

Fantastic car Al, lucky sod!
I was racing at Riverside in 1973 and was testing a day or two before. So was Mark Donahue. He was setting up identically, the 15 Porsche RSR they originally used for the original IROC series. I was walking the track and had to keep on getting out of the way; if only I had thought of taking some photos .... In fact we have just got boss man Roger Penske on board at the BRDC as an 'onary member',
don't-you-know.
Sorry ... Camaros ...

[Al Weyman]

Thanks John they must be magic recollections, do you think the renovation project is worth doing, I mean I am down the line on it now but it is reasuring to think that what you put into a project is not money down the drain if you know what I mean.

I tell you this is great site you have here I am so glad I found it, I have been trying to find snippets of info on this car for over 5 years, thanks for replying. Funny enough there seems to be quite a lot of info and pictures about featurng the road car based cars and also the third gens but not much that I can find on the Banjo Matthews 2nd gens. One area I desparately need some help with is the rear end bodywork as someone in this country tried a bit of a lightening job and replaced the rear quarters with glass fiber, (must have saved all of 10lbs). I am a bit unsure on the trunk floor area I mean there is'nt one basically just the fuel tank and the chassis. Any pictures of this area would be brilliant.

I have some grainy footage of a race at Riverside featuring the cars on one of those crash videos but I am sure I saw the same footage on Men & Motors TV channel with Jackie STewart commentating and it was good quality video. In the race Mario Andretti loses it up front in the black car and causes a chain reaction and my beige car driven by oe of the Unsters got a light bang in the passagers door (still a nerf in the cage today!).

[Steve Holmes]

Al, absolutely you should invest in its restoration. What a great car! Its interesting there were two imported to the UK, given they were designed mainly for oval racing. What sort of events did it compete in in the UK? Thundersaloons?

Here are a couple of sites which may (or may) be of use. Racing Sports Cars seems to cover most events including Trans-Am, but not NASCAR and IROC. But I know many oval cars raced in the endurance events. There might be a pic of an IROC car in there somewhere.

http://www.racingsportscars.com/

Historic Trans-Am is really for vintage Trans-Am cars, but there is an email on the page so you can email the people involved and see if they can help with info on your Camaro. They're bound to know someone who has one of the IROC cars, or pics of one.

http://www.historictransam.com/

Check out this class in New Zealand I am involved with. You're sure to like it. Central Muscle Cars is a circuit racing class for pre-1984 production based six cylinder and V8 racing muscle cars.

http://www.centralmusclecars.co.nz

I'll attach a couple of pics too.

[Steve Holmes]

This is Ross Maxwell in the 1970 Camaro, with 7.5 litre big block. Murray Brown chases in the similar car, with 383ci small block.

[Steve Holmes]

This one is Paul Kirwan, in his 68 Camaro. Car runs 7.5 litres at 700hp. Stunning car.

[Steve Holmes]

This one is Steve Malam with his big block Corvette.

[Al Weyman]

Hi Steve, thanks for the input I will check out those sites.

The cars were imported for the original ASCAR series (not the current one that stole the name)which was formulated for American V8's but never really took off. As I understand it and I have never actually spoke with the man, but Brian Rice supplied some engine parts (Heads or valves?) to Traco Engineering which is how he must have got to know about the cars. The thing is I don't think there are any of these left apart from the two that IROC own, I may be wrong but they told me about a year ago the one they renovated was on display at the Dale Earnhardt Memorial exhibition at the Corvette museum and I think it was going from there to the Talladaga Speedway Museum but I may be wrong. I think they said they had another in bits I can't remember. Theirs has the wrong wheels when on display at Daytona (I will post a picture if I remember tomorrow as I have it in my shop), it should have had Norriss Industries eheels which mine has but they put alloys on it. They also told me the rest of the cars went to some NASCAR school of racing and as far as they knew had all expired but I cannot confirm this. I have found people on the net claiming to have the earlier models in various forms but have never seen one of the Banjo Matthews cars. Maybe it was just too easy to put a late model body on to the chassis and race it as a different model car who knows, I know some of the 3rd Gen were converted by IROC into Dodge Daytona's I believe.

[Al Weyman]

Nice pictures STeve thanks for posting. Just to prove I am a Camaro nut here is a picture of my 3rd gen IROC Modified Production Saloon, this has about 575bhp and runs on road tyres so is a bit of a handful. Hav'nt raced since 97 and did not ever have the car runnig correctly on the track but I have sorted it now and it is pretty quick. I took it to a trackday last year and gave one of those £60,000 Nobels a damn good run for his money. They all seemed a bit shocked when I turned up and it diod not look right amougst the kit cars, never did get invited back, wonder why?

[Al Weyman]

Here is a link to the only one I ever found for sale on the net and this is not a Banjo Matthews car but a production based car. I think by the price the guy is asking he is being a tad ambitious as it has been up for sale for years. Look under Chevrolet then IROC Prototype.
http://www.highwayone.com/Classified.html

[Al Weyman]

Here is a picture sent to me by the IROC people of their renovated 2nd Gen car the same as mine, this was done for their 25th anniversary and shows Dave Marcis their chief test driver at the time, with the cars. Note their car sports alloy wheels instead of the chrome plated Norris Industries ones on mine as Norris are no longer in business as I understand it.

[Steve Holmes]

they are great looking cars Al. You're really fortunate! How sad it is only two survive. I know I've seen at least one good pic of those cars recently, it'll come to me eventually. Were they full space frame? they should make the current IROC racers look like that. By the way, I love you're other Camaro. Very cool.

[Al Weyman]

I don't know whether it is a space frame in the true scence of the word Steve, it is a typical Grand National Stock Car chassis i.e. everything conects to the main rollcage and I mean everything, all the suspension, the engine mounts, the gearbox, even the seat mounting frame, it is a work of art actually, one of Banjo Matthews finest and stamped up with their part and chassis numbere BM IROC11. You could actually strip the entire bodywork off and drive it down the road so I suppose it is a tubular spaceframe, yes. This is probably what happened to the school cars as I say, to change the body even to a current shape would be temptingly easy so it is probably what happened to them.

Hey here is something interesting but promise not to tell anyone . Although used very much as a promotional tool for GM it is actually fitted (from new) with, horror of horrors a Ford 9" back axle and maybe even a Ford steering box, I bet they kept that a bit quite at the time.

[carrera]

The Jerry Hibbert Thundersaloon was entered as an IROC Camaro so perhaps its present owner "Thatorangething" may have some info.

[Al Weyman]

Sounds like the same car to me, mine is a horrible orange colour at the moment, well the roof is all the rest is off the car and a lot wont go back, bonnet, boot, rear quartes, spoiler, fibregalss (should be steel) doos skins, all in the bin as I want to get it back to the way it should be. Don;t ask me why, must be mad but it seems a shame for piece of American race history to end up like this ad desrves a better retirement (sentimental **** aint't I?). This car has a sticker on it 'Harrow Car Club' a BARC sticker and a sticker for that series the BARC Northernm used to run.

I tell you what if je done some of the things on this car he should be ashamed of himself if for no other reason he had no respect for his own safety. |THis car has the ultimate safety cage and the seat frame is actually welded direct to the main tubular frame and chassis, what does someone over here do? Bolt in a cheap old Cobreau seat but no not make a couple of brackets out of bent Alloy and bolt them to the NASCAR style seat frame in which case it would be adjustable. Oh no, he bolts it straight through the floor which is a lightweight fabricated metal not your usual stock floor pan which would have been bad enough. Then the seat belts. Beatiful mounting points on the main frame and seat frame, what does he do? Bolts them ito a small hole with a 10mm bolt, the mind boggles!

[Steve Holmes]

Al, the seat must have been bouncing up and down on the lightweight floor as he was driving it! Did the car do any circuit racing? I wonder what it would have been like.

Darrel Waltrip once said a NASCAR is a car which "don't do anything too well". Is the IROC very similar to a NASCAR spaceframe? Is it as heavy as a NASCAR? And are the brakes as puny?

Here is a site you might find useful Al. These guys specialise in restoring old stockcars. They're bound to have info for your car. Keep up the good work.

http://www.racetorations.com/

[Al Weyman]

Steve,

Yes the guy would have been circuit racing although I never met him. The car as I say is built on a Banjo Matthews chassis who I understand was a NASCAR spaceframe supplier. I have a Road & Track track test on the car here and yes it was a heavy old piece of kit. I think the aticle said it was built to, and I quote 'In the NASCAR terminology, the Camaro is considered a Late Mode Sportsman and not a stocker per se'. The article says the car weighs in at 3280 so I guess that was a bit lighter than the stockcars. I am reading the spec now and they rated the engine at 'only' 450bhp, I thought I read somewhere they detuned them to slow them down a bit but I may have got my lines crossed with the more slippery 3rd Gen cars.

The brakes are 12 inch diam. Hurst Airheart units all round with large pistons in the front, fortuanately they are all original and look good, I have pulled them apart and cleaned them up, discs are fine as well.

I saved this thing from being broken up and sold for the sum of its parts about 4 or 5 years ago, the guy had been offered a £1000 for the Ford truck axle and was tempted, lets hope I did the right thing as it would have been a big shame if it had gone forever, at least that is my view, thaks for the lead I will check it out.

Al

[Anuauto]

I cant find any pictures other than the GM poster you posted earlier (that was on the inside back cover of all the programmes for the 1978 Nascar Grand National Winston Cup events). At that time the top Nascar category was Grand National at 3700lbs and the next category down was Late Model Sportsman (Baby Grand and Modified were then the other major categories). I think they re-titled it all a few years ago and their "F1" became just Winston Cup (now Nextel or whatever it is) and the "F2" became Grand National instead of LMS. Dont think Camaros etc were eligible for the main LMS at the time (but it could obviously have been built to the main spec.) As far as I recall when I lived in USA in 78/9, a Banjo Matthews frame seemed to be the most sought after.