Do you think Ron would have dumped DC for JV if the opportunity arose?

[Yoong Montoya]

At the end of 1998, Villeneuve left Williams as they were no longer competitive enough. Maybe he got fired, I dunno. But anyway, if he decided to try to go to McLaren instead of BAR, do you think Ron would have taken him and kicked out Coulthard? Remember that Coulthard did not drive very well in 1998 and only managed one win in the same car Hakkinen won the WDC in?

[Lee Janotta]

Ron and JV have a _long_-running personal and professional feud. I don't remember the exact quote, but Ron said of JV very early in the Canadian's career that he didn't think he had any place at all in F1. Jacques, reportedly, took great pleasure in rubbing his '97 championship in Dennis' face.

It would have been a marriage of convenience, and Ron's smart enough that he would have brought Jacques on board no matter the personal baggage, but only if Villeneuve would keep his mouth shut. That wasn't acceptable, and the BAT money sealed the deal (they had, of course, sponsored him for most of his career, especially under the Players and Rothmans brands).

[senna12]

The opportunity may yet arise......

[RWC]

I think they could easily hide their personal mutual dislike if other factors were different.JV is not mercedes material plain and simple.


....unless mercedes want to change their image even more....!

[lidah_api]

Anything is posible in F1.

But, it depends JV's performance in 2003. As we know, pasca Williams, JV had put himself as quickless driver...

And, of course, depends to Mc and Mercedes. Cause many driver will avaliable, like Fisi, just example...

[Valve Bounce]

This subject has been discussed in some detail in this forum already. Just from memory of discussions, I think Ron Dennis threw Jacqus out of his hospitality unit one year when McLaren were celebrating some win.
It was also discussed that McLaren require their drivers to do a helluva lot of PR work which doesn't fit in with Jacques' favourite passtimes.

[f1manoz]

It wouldn't work. JV doesn't like PR, McLaren are a PR machine. JV wouldn't last a month. Ron would fire his ass!

However, on the racing front, they would be a suitable match.

[Sato san]

seeing as Ron signed Mansell in 95 . i cant see any reason why he wouldnt have taken Jacques in place of DC......

[Valve Bounce]

Didn't Ron also sign that American who used to prang the car all the time, can't remember his name, Mike somebody or other.

[Sodemo]

I still don't know why DC has a place at McLaren, he's an average driver, like Damon Hill, not bad, just not a "natural".

[Sato san]

oooooo, do you remember that big crash Andretti had at Interlagos in 1993 ?.......that was a huge one in to the catch fencing whilst being in mid air doing a 360 degree mid air spin !

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by The Monster
I still don't know why DC has a place at McLaren, he's an average driver, like Damon Hill, not bad, just not a "natural".

You're kidding, right If Damon was just average, what does that make every other driver on the track? Mediocre? I don't remember SchM qualifying on the front row of every race last year, and he had by far the best car around. Damon did achieve that feat.

[Sodemo]

Damon was not in F1 last year.
In any case, you are referring to an era (1995-6) when the Williams team were utterly dominant, more so than Ferrari this year.
Their nearest competition was Ferrari in 1996, and their car was a "dog" according to Irvine.

I was actually a big fan of Damon, and loved watching him win the title in 1996 which did make me very emotional after the trials and tribulations of 1994 and 1995, but it has to be said that he wasn't a "natural", Damon's mother even said this in the documentary that was aired post Suzuka 1996 on BBC2.

I have never rated DC, but Damon was better than DC.

Talented drivers, who seem to have that 'edge', M Schu, Montoya, JV and of course Senna.

[Liz]

Jacques won't dress like a grownup or shave; Jacques has a clause in his contract strictly limiting his PR duties; and Jacques speaks words not written on index cards and pre-approved by Ron Dennis and all the people at Mercedes.

The only chance I can see that Jacques wuold drive at McLaren is if every other driver in the world except Alex Yoong were already signed to a drive.

Even then he'd think about it.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Monster
Damon was not in F1 last year.
In any case, you are referring to an era (1995-6) when the Williams team were utterly dominant, more so than Ferrari this year.

this is a joke right?? the f2002 was the most dominant car f1 has ever seen, plus the most reliable.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Just from memory of discussions, I think Ron Dennis threw Jacqus out of his hospitality unit one year when McLaren were celebrating some win.

Valve, the story goes, in 1993, when JV was racing out in Japan, he was at the "log cabin" after the Japanese race, and Ron told him in no un-certain terms that "he wasn't in F1 so **** off."

In 1996, at the same location (after Damon had won the WDC) JV went upto Ron and said "i am in F1 now so **** off"

[Valve Bounce]

Good one

[BootsOntheSide]

Ron and JV are not suited to working together. Ron is serious, professional, almost to the point of being dour. Jacques is outspoken, opinionated, occasionally stroppy, and not the type who would fit the McLaren team philosophy. I'm sure Ron now respects JV's driving ability, but he has never held a high opinion of CART, and would not see JV or Montoya as superstars.

[RWC]

"this is a joke right?? the f2002 was the most dominant car f1 has ever seen"
Rubbish-it was easily beaten in qualifying(which is what this argument is about),in spite of having one of the best qualifying drivers ever.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by RWC
it was easily beaten in qualifying(which is what this argument is about),in spite of having one of the best qualifying drivers ever.

when you consider that it was only beaten in qualifying by one driver (in terms of poles) then you have to ask yourself, was it the Williams, or Montoya that made the difference? Bearing in mind that Rafe couldn't manage it!

[Sodemo]

The Williams was the fastest over 1 lap. It all comes down to the behavoir of the tyres, Williams were often fastest over 1 lap, the only thing that let them down was the tyres.

Incidentally, I think the Williams chassis got a lot of bad press last year, but it can't have been that bad if they got 7 poles, - the tyres were the weak link. They just needed a chassis which wasn't quite as hard on tyres.

In the mid nineties Williams had it their own way, I used to just pop my head around the door of the living room to ask "which Williams is winning?"

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Monster
The Williams was the fastest over 1 lap. It all comes down to the behavoir of the tyres, Williams were often fastest over 1 lap, the only thing that let them down was the tyres.

which brings me back to my point, was it fastest because Montoya was driving it? Imagine if, there were two "Rafes" in the Williams in 2002, how many poles would the Williams team have got?

[Sodemo]

Sorry, what argument are we having here? Is it that 1).DC isn't very good? 2).Damon Hill is better than DC, 3).Damon Hill is average - but better than DC or 4).which car is/not/was dominant in 1995/6 2002?

[El_Gibleto]

The idea Mclaren driver has no personality and only utters pre prepared "PR" speak, hence Mclaren love drivers like Mika Kimi and Coulthard, who seem incapable of independent thought.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by The Monster
Sorry, what argument are we having here? Is it that 1).DC isn't very good? 2).Damon Hill is better than DC, 3).Damon Hill is average - but better than DC or 4).which car is/not/was dominant in 1995/6 2002?

All of the above? sorry, side tracked, my answer to the original question would be......No, not neccessarily due to driving talent, but more through their relationship "off the track"