FF1600 new rules for 2004?

[vd man]

A rumor spreading about the ff1600 faternity is that rule changes for 04 have already been agreed!
These changes have been led by a coombe regular (ED)and consist of
a)min weight of car to include driver at 500 kilos ( wonder if that might help the heavy zetec conversions?!?)
b)a class structure of
pre 74
74-81
pre 87
pre90 (note no introduction of a pre98 class as requested by regular runners - funny that!
c)A tyre chioce of acb9 or acb10 and dunlops for pre74

what on earth was wrong with the standard ff regs - the converted zetecs conform to the regs so thats fine why change something that isnt broke, 1600 works because its simple and one of its main attractions is the level playing field a choice of tyres is stupid either acb9 or 10 but not both - all this has obviously been driven to favour zetec conversions by people that dont know or understand what 1600 racing is all about - lobby your organisers to realise this before its too late

[darcym]

I don't want a Pre 98 class - I want to race against the zetecs ! so no problem with the classes.

where did you get this information ?

I'll ask Ed about it on Saturday

[ultimatebilly]

Will be interesting to see what he says about it,
I assume this is to accomodate 75kg drivers, maybe is would be best to leave the rules as they are as in only weighing the car, this might encourage some drivers to the gym!? as I said it will be interesting to see what he says!

Bill

[vd man]

classes seem to be sensible &in line with kok, pukka kent cars are designed to run at 420, they will only really benefit with heavy drivers, it does seem to favor the conversions who incidently i welcome as a breath of fresh air. Tyres need to be one spec though , maybe it is time for a change, the Avon ACB 09 does last longer,is cheaper and better in the wet.

[dhart]

ive heard a similar rumor let us know what ed says

[JohnMiller]

What's the problem?

Current regs say 420kg for the car. This is hardly fair if you then have a 17yr old driver of 55kg against the likes of myself (90kg plus kit). An overall weight is better and will allow lighter cars like RF90s to be EVEN more competitive. 500kg for car/driver sounds MUCH, MUCH better and fairer.

The tyres is to allow more people to run, ie. if your car is in Euro or Historic/Classic ACB9 set-up you would be able to run it without buying new wheels, tyres and having a totally different set up.

The class structure seems fine. I'm confident my Swift SC 94 could beat a post-95 car (Zetec) with their very wide pods etc. The only thing I'm not sure about is a pre-90 class and a pre-87 class - seems a bit close together and the 89s are damn quick cars anyway.

Perhaps they mean Combe will stick at pre-90 and the others will stick at pre-87. Are these regs for some sort of National series?

So, what's the problem?

[JustinDawkins]

Roll on the 500KG rule! Im 6'2" and weight 85kgs, so that will help me know end!

[Tony_Simpson]

Originally posted by vd man

b)a class structure of
pre 74
74-81
pre 87
pre90 (note no introduction of a pre98 class as requested by regular runners - funny that!

What about the 91, 92,93 kent engined cars then??? Surely a pre Zetec (94 the year they changed) class is needed for the slightly newer cars.

[dhart]

rumors seemto be true - co ordinator for NW series has had contact from someone from SW centre who will co ordinate all ff championships next year! AND - ALLOY CALIPERS AND DAMPERS WILL BE ALLOWED NEXT YEAR Only need 4 grand to "upgrade" my 2 84 reynards my 90 VD my 93 VD, just shows what happens when the cider sets in thanks SW!

[mattray]

So John Hutchinson and Ed Moooooore were having a good race at the Carnival this weekend, what year Van Diemen is John driving? does this show that you can give one of these newer cars a good race with an older car? goes to show what a good driver can do in an older car!! all this rubish about rule changes and these newer cars being too fast and unfair, just frickin drive faster!!

Matt

[dhart]

yea mattray i agree but why change the rules, the current conversions conform to the current regs and thats fine ,they have made a lot of effort to conform and i take my hat off to them,they set themselves up to be beaten which makes great racing , i am not against racing them at all just rather it be to FF rules not some mono/ZIP type of nonsense dreamt up by someone with no understanding of the ethos of FF.

[JNWRF01]

I agree with everything above - esp the weight changes - but keep the alloy dampers and calipers out of it. THe free dampers have ruin Zetecs (the big Zetec teams have damper technicians). Just keep the rules as they are this season - allow a free choice of tyres inf you want - and ammend the weight (500kgs is fine).

I do have a vested interest - having spent a fortune in new bits to make my 2001 V-D in full kent spec (ie steel everything!)

[JR Ewing]

Everything seems fine to me in FF1600. The older cars and newer cars are equally competitive. The weights (and tyres to some degree) seems common sense, but ALLOY CALIPERS AND DAMPERS.

What **** thought that up?

Will they still ban dampers with remote/seperate reservoirs?

[JNWRF01]

Prob is JR - is that as soon as you can get ally dampers made up with internal reseviors you are talking £1100+VAT per damper - as quoted to me from Mr Ohlin.

The whole point about FF is that its meant to be a club spec series. If people, like me, want to convert a zetec then we should spec-down our cars and not make the 99% of FF owners spec up to Zetec. The only person who who ebenfits is the guys converting their Zetec. Pointless.

[JR Ewing]

Or Mr Mick Ohlin?

[JR Ewing]

Originally posted by darcym

where did you get this information ?

I'll ask Ed about it on Saturday

Well Darc??

[darcym]

I harldy saw Ed all weekend, I spoke to him once in passing as he was lining up to go out to the grid, and due to getting ready myself that was a short conversation. Bottom line is I didn't ask him, due to not seeing him.

However he does read the board I am sure he'll chirp up.


The question for me is...."why change the rules at all" it seems to work so well as it is. Convert the zetecs to kent if you want, but leave them the same spec, leave the tyres and weight alone...I am only saying this because of how close and fair the racing seems at the moment, the cost is acceptable. Why break a winning formula ?

[JR Ewing]

You must be slim!

[RMR]

I agree with darcym leave it alone it is a proven formula and works well. as for the weight thing, no one has ever moaned before, if your tall and built wide then i can understand but dont think rules should change when a gym membership would help. and if you dont fit in one race another formula? i just think if it aint broke.....

[JR Ewing]

You must be slim too RMR!

The wieght thing is a good idea surely as it equalises, equalises drivers and potentially chassis. Some older drivers would not hit the weight limit if they lived at the gym.
If you were quick but beaten by an eight stone teenager I think you would then agree...

[Barny]

In the past I have questioned if Zetec converstions are in the spirit of FF1600, but as mattray says above, Ed Moore and John Hutchinsons battle proved how evenly matched these cars are, great race, shame the way it ended.

I agree leave the calipers and dampers alone, but the combined weight limit will make the racing even more closer and won't cost anything.

[darcym]

I have been known to eat a pie or too JR....so not that slim.

2 points, which have been touched on.

1.) the zetec conversion against the kents, after an interesting conversation with a zetec converter earlier this year, I am now of the opinion...so what, John hutchinson and Ed had a great battle...the end. Ed converted his car to kent spec and they where matched well be the drivers. For me this shows no reason to change the weight.

2.) Bob Higgins is 6ft something and won championships and recently did a few come back races and got second ??? Gary Marsh is 6ft something and no feather weight (bad wording) and won the combe B class championship in an RF88/89 (can't remember which car)

there are a couple of other drivers who are not what I would call Hugo Boss models around the gut area but they race well, so I am not sure that the weight change would make a massive difference, and just cause more headache setting up the car.

With that in mind I don't really care about the weight rule, I would just rarther see it stay the same, because of how well it seems to work currently.

As long as the actual "Kent car rules" stay the same I don't care that much about the weight.

[darcym]

would not call hugo boss models, that should read.

I am turning spell checker off it never works

[Barny]

Do any other formula (apart from F1) weigh car and driver?

[JR Ewing]

I don't think the weight is a big issue but I do think it's fairer and will cost nobody much money.

Apart from that leave it like it is. Changing brakes, uprights and dampers is a joke!

I do wonder if these changes are designed to bring out more cars and encourage more Zetec conversions. This makes me wonder if the BRSCC are mistakenly confusing their current lack of 'customers' with a lack of chassis?