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30 Jun 2003, 05:33 (Ref:646757)
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#1 | |
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Registered User
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 92
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Ross Brawn actually as a point...
Although I see the current collision between Montoya and Schumacher more MS' fault then Montoya's, and as a fan of Schumacher, basically no big deal since MS extended his championship lead, it has to be said; there is a dark side to Montoya's aggresiveness:
Brawn: "Juan Pablo doesn't have much class on occasions - he just gets alongside a driver and turns in regardless of what the consequences are. We had many years of Mika and Michael driving together and, in my recollection, they never knocked each other off. Juan Pablo is involved in far too many incidents. He had Coulthard off here last year and is just a crude driver when it comes to his tactics. I think it's unacceptable. It has cost Michael a number of points." I can't agree with the unacceptable part, but he is right about Juan always trying to force an incident. I'm reminded of the footage of Juan getting his head banged by a camera man...Jaun basically throws a tantrum over that, and I mean like something you expect to see out of a 12 year old; revealing clearly; that in some ways; Montoya needs to mature. He drives that way sometimes, too. Personally, I think it's holding him back... |
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30 Jun 2003, 05:48 (Ref:646764)
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#2 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 163
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Classy MS moves-Australia 94 vs Hill, Spa 95 for about 10 laps vs Hill, Jerez 97 vs Villeneuve. All deliberate in my opinion.
12 year old tantrun-Spa 99 after a collision with DC in the rain. Montoya is a charger but I don't think he is crude when he overtakes. He had a super run at MS towards the Dunlop Curve and he gave MS enough room to race. MS should have realised that he was significantly slower and given Montoya the corner. He didn't, and his comments after the race show he realises it was an error. Full marks to MS for not whinging about this. He has gone up in my estimation a great deal. Ross Brawn has gone way down! |
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30 Jun 2003, 05:52 (Ref:646765)
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#3 | |
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Registered User
Rookie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 92
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I'd agree accept for one thing...
Montoya has been involved in too many of these exact same incidents... Which is what Brawn is pointing out... He needs to smooth the rough edges...for all the hoopla over Juan, Ralf has proven to be better... That's pretty sad really when you consider that Juan is a far more talented driver... I hate to say this...but I think Juan is a head case.... |
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30 Jun 2003, 06:05 (Ref:646767)
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#4 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 163
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I think the reason that JPM gets involved in more than his fair share of these incidents is that he is one of the few who really goes for an overtaking manoevre. We have seen Ralf sit behind and follow(and he was heavily criticised for this in Canada) rather than go for it.
All I can say,as a fan of the sport, is that I would rather watch Montoya having a go, rather than Ralf playing follow my leader. This was a typical Ralf win. Once Kimi retired he kept up a very fast pace whilst out front on his own, but wasn't really racing anyone. However, he qualified faster than Montoya, despite having more fuel, so it was a well earned win and congratulations to him. What gets me hot under the collar is when drivers get criticised when an attempted pass goes wrong, which they will do from time to time. Its a sport and an entertainment and we will remember the incident between MS and JPM long after we remember who won the race. That's why we watch. Oh. And welcome to the board. Hope you enjoy the debates. |
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30 Jun 2003, 08:02 (Ref:646855)
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#5 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,660
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F1 needs more following, and less overtaking.
hang on a minute, thats not right... |
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__________________
It's just my opinion.
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30 Jun 2003, 08:03 (Ref:646857)
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#6 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,189
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no thats correct ...your job at the FIA is secure
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__________________
"we love the winter, it brings us closer together"
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30 Jun 2003, 08:13 (Ref:646864)
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#7 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,341
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Quote:
Montoya is one of very rare drivers out there who is NEVER happy with 'follow the leader'. So what if his overtaking moves don't go well every time? At least he is trying which cannot be sad for many others. |
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__________________
Let it be
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30 Jun 2003, 08:19 (Ref:646871)
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#8 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,623
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I have mentioned this on the 'Brawn and specs' thread but I think I would also like to state it here.
MS has also been involved in such incidents in the past. Enough to list if you wanted to. For example, didn't Trulli get pushed off by MS a few races ago, when Michael refused to yield and tipped him in the bad end. That cost Jarno and Renault points! It's interesting that when Brawn's guys have made mistakes that have ruined the races of others, he backs them no matter what and refuses to comment in an adverse way. His comments have the whiff of hypocrisy about them. If you are going to whinge on such matters, have the grace to admit the issue when the 'Reds' do it too. 
Last edited by Hugh Jarce; 30 Jun 2003 at 08:20. |
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30 Jun 2003, 08:27 (Ref:646879)
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#9 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 2,508
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I can't believe that there are people complaining about JPM because he has the audacity to race. There was nothing malicious in his overtaking move, i think rather than be criticized he should be congratulated for making a gutsy move.
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30 Jun 2003, 08:51 (Ref:646908)
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#10 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,598
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If JPM were charging hard in the seat of a Ferrari I don't think Ross would be saying too much. To squeeze another car and stay on the road yourself is showing plenty of finesse if you ask me, and it looks like nothing more than learning from Schumacher the master himself! Maybe Ross is simply being professional and not missing any chance to stir emotions, which is completely fair enough - at this level it's as much about mind-games as driving.
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30 Jun 2003, 08:56 (Ref:646912)
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#11 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,623
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Or he was angry and let it spill over - That's my view
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30 Jun 2003, 10:23 (Ref:646988)
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#12 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 116
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It looked to me as though the dubious tactics were on the part of Herr Schumacher.
 From Montoya's on-board camera Michael moves left and bumps JPM slightly. Perhaps, like Brundle and Allen (on ITV), he expected the guy on the outside to be the one to spin.  Anyway, I enjoyed the outcome. And Ross has made a real prat of himself (again!). 
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30 Jun 2003, 10:50 (Ref:647018)
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#13 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 13,038
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Non of you have mentioned that Michael himself thought the move was fair! I'm not a Schuey fan admittedly, but he did have the decency to say Montoya didn't pull a dodgy move.
I have to agree with Hugh in entirity. |
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__________________
The Priest Catcher Honoured recipient of the BARC Browning Medal
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30 Jun 2003, 11:02 (Ref:647034)
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#14 | ||
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Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,212
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 St Michael has never rammed or blocked anyone ever?
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30 Jun 2003, 11:03 (Ref:647037)
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#15 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,707
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i was exstreamly pleased with monty's move, i was a bit angry that he didn't finish the job and TGF escaped, again.
this is MOTORSPORT, and its dangerous, contact is inevitable but i think Montya made a clever safe move, congratulations to him and well done Williams, maybe you understand you car now! |
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__________________
"If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now" Douglas Adams. 1952-2001
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30 Jun 2003, 11:09 (Ref:647044)
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#16 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 13,000
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Montoya's move was just perfect, one of the best in F1 in years. Michael knows he was well beaten this time.
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30 Jun 2003, 11:18 (Ref:647052)
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#17 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 320
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This type of horrified reaction to a piece of real balls-out racing cracks me up. F1 followers are so starved of real good wheel to wheel action that when they actualy see any they cry foul. Get a life for Chrissakes. Don't u guys want to see the drama that motorsport can offer, if not check out some of the exciting offers on The Shopping Channel.
A big up to Schumie for his reaction to the incident, he goes up a notch in my estimation, as for Braun he's a first class **** and a whinger. As for the people who threw up their hands in horror at the sight of a spot of overtaking, for Gods sake steer clear of watching Sam Hornish Jr in the IRL he'll frighten the bloody life out of you. 
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__________________
Boogity Boogity Boogity Lets go racin'Damn its a full coarse yellow!
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30 Jun 2003, 11:24 (Ref:647059)
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#18 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,979
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Castroneves Vs. Dixon was pretty good too.
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30 Jun 2003, 11:52 (Ref:647082)
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#19 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 320
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Damn right mate. Interesting name there my friend I bet they love u at the doctors surgery. "Next patient Mr @ijntjuh"
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__________________
Boogity Boogity Boogity Lets go racin'Damn its a full coarse yellow!
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30 Jun 2003, 12:38 (Ref:647127)
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#20 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,168
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I tell you what: I used to think that the only good thing about Ferrarsi was their master tictacian Ross Brawn: clearly a man who, despite his name, used his brains a lot. But now, since his post-race comments at Nuremburg, sorry Nurburgring, I have lost all respect for the guy, and I'm now able to say unequivocally that I detest and despise absolutely all things Ferrarsi.
How Brawn can have the balls to describe Montoya as "not classy" after all the truly stupid, weak and pathetic things that Schumacher Snr has done in his career is completely beyond me. I would like to precisely describe what I think about Brawn,  but fear for my rights to continue using this Forum, but I tell you this, they are a lot stronger than any of the words Greg Rudeboyski knows...,
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30 Jun 2003, 12:39 (Ref:647128)
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#21 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,168
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... so what I'm basically saying is NO, ROSS BRAWN DOESN'T
HAVE A POINT!!!!!
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30 Jun 2003, 12:45 (Ref:647134)
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#22 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
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Quote:
 It was a racing incident OK? But if you really insist want to blame someone for the entire story, be it a driver's fault or team's principal reactions, one might be curious of what rate of passing attempts/crashes does Montoya have in 2 1/2 years of activity. So actually Ross Brawn DOES have a point. By the way, what were those "truly stupid, weak and pathetic things that Schumacher Snr has done in his career", what's the length of his career and what the does that have to do with anything?
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30 Jun 2003, 12:55 (Ref:647145)
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#23 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,660
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If those
dont stop I'll have to . ferrari and williams with a large pan.
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__________________
It's just my opinion.
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30 Jun 2003, 12:57 (Ref:647146)
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#24 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 5,867
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<gasps in astonishment>
huh? 
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30 Jun 2003, 13:05 (Ref:647158)
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#25 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 729
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JPM's move was pure class, so classy in fact it made TGF look like a clumsy wally.
Ross Brain was just gutted. After all even Schuey himself didn't blame JPM but didn't want to publicly contradict Brawn! |
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