Not every Italian is happy with TGF

[Valve Bounce]

Look at this from autorace:"I know what I am saying goes against popular opinion. But to me Schumacher's victory means nothing. I expect at the end it is the glorious Ferrari team and not an insolent overpaid little Bavarian boy that has won the world title. It annoyed me that a boy we paid with our country's money behaves like a good German when he is listening to 'Deutschland Uber Alles' and watches the German flag with rigid attention like a German army soldier. Then he plays the fool and not for the first time when the Italian national anthem is played and they hoist the tricolor."
And who said all this, former Italian President Francesco Cossiga.
Personally, I was somewhat apprehensive when he started orchestrating the Italian National Anthem. To put this into perspective : Can you imagine Mika or Eddie doing that to God Save the Queen?

[Gerard]

I can understand it when Mr. Cossiga says he doesn't like it when the Italian anthem is treated like a piece of music out of an operetta, but I think his remarks about a little Bavarian boy, a boy we paid with our country's money, behave like a good German and playing the fool are leaning towards racism.

[LYM]

Now we know the real reason why he was disposed...acting against the national interest of Italy.

[Victor Broccoli]

"But to me Schumacher's victory means nothing. I expect at the end it is the glorious Ferrari team and not an insolent overpaid little Bavarian boy that has won the world title."

No, they call it the World Driver Championship...emphasis on the driver. Ferrari's championship, the World Constructor Championship, is due in about 12 days

Yeah, Schumi playing orchestator to the Italian anthem was wrong. But there's absolutely no reason to take that out of context and to make an attack on Ferrari and Schumi's accomplishment as he did.

Notice all of the great drivers that tried and failed to win the WDC for Ferrari (Villeneuve, Prost, Alesi) and notice that despite their stellar careers elsewhere, they could do it.

I think, in light of this, a few people will remember that Schumi won the 2000 WDC. Just a few, perhaps

[R]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Can you imagine Mika or Eddie doing that to God Save the Queen?

That would be very funny! The British anthem is very slow, while the Italian "invites" to such conducting gestures, being a faster tune. I personally see nothing wrong in TGF doing this, but I respect that Italians may have other views. Rubinho also tried to do this orchestrating on the podium at Hockenheim, but he was way out of his depths there! He didn't follow the rhythm at all, like TGF does, he just orchestrated wildly! Due to lack of practice, I suppose.

Question is of course, will TGF continue with this next year after being criticized for it? That will be interesting to see. (Yes, I anticipate he will win a few races next year as well.)

"Tried and failed to win the WDC for Ferrari." I agree that Prost and Alesi failed, but I think it's unfair to say that Gilles Villeneuve failed. I think he would have won in 82 if he hadn't been killed, and I don't think that would have been his only title either.

[Ralf's Girl]

I'm not impressed at all with the 'little Bavarian boy' comments. Having spent about six weeks of my school year studying Germany under the rule of Hindenberg and Hitler, that was certainly not something that will be appreciated by anyone - particularly Germans.

[TimD]

R, you hit on exactly what I was thinking. The Italian national anthem is just so JOLLY. It's a real celebration of a tune. I suspect that deep down, ol' Schumacher is actually rather proud to be the cause of Ferrari's national tune being played, and that there is no disrespect intended.

Thinks... I don't recall Michael ever conducting along to "God Save the Queen" when he was winning for Benetton...


Oh, and I think you're probably right about Gilles in '82, as well.

[Sparky]

From ITV-F1:

Michael Schumacher has apologised after a former Italian president accused him of being disrespectful to the country’s national anthem.

Francesco Cossiga accused Schumacher of being an ‘insolent overpaid little Bavarian boy’ after he pretended to conduct an orchestra as the anthem was played on the podium at Suzuka last Sunday.

Cossiga criticised Schumacher for observing the German anthem faultlessly before ‘playing the fool’ during the Italian equivalent.

But Schumacher responded: "I have the utmost respect for the Italian national anthem. From the podium I saw everyone underneath chanting and dancing and so I did the same. We were all overwhelmed with joy. I apologise if my behaviour has been interpreted as a sign of disrespect for Italy's national anthem."

Notice he says 'if', 'interpreted' and 'sign'. What he's really saying is "It's your problem, not mine."

I think he was caught up with the moment. As R says, I see nothing wrong with this.

[Valve Bounce]

I'll go along with R. I felt that TGF was overcome with emotion after he won the race, and in fact, I thought he was going to prang the car when he was taking both hands off the steering wheel and then banging them back down as he was going around a bend. I also agree with the fact that the Italian anthem is rather uplifting and invites this type of celebration. I wonder what the Italians in the Ferrari team were doing, probably jumping and crying with joy at the same time. The French anthem is also very stirring, and I can also understand a frenchman getting carried away and orchestrating this in pride. Quite frankly, I found the racist remarks uncalled for.

[Ralf's Girl]

Same here.

I think TGF was simply happy and showing how happy he was. No-one else has had a problem with it, and I think saying it's Cossiga's problem is absolutely correct. But to avoid causing further offence, he says it in a roundabout way. Clever...

[Liz]

A masterful false apology by someone who apparently has had to make plenty of them.

Personally I thought I had seen him do that orchestra thingy before and don't recall anyone making any complaints about it.

But it was disrespectful and in fact so is it disrespectful when the vast majority of you guys (and girls) fail to remove your caps during anybody's national anthem, and persist in blowing your air horns during same. Whether or not you have the advantage of being jumped-up overpaid Bavarians or not.

So there.

[Gt_R]

Hmmm, from someone staying in Asia, i would have thought that Michael did more for Ferrari in 5years than THAT italian old man did for Italy in his years of presidency! It seems like all italians are happy with that, and i do not see any problem with Michael's action. Silly but nice to see a champion in such an (OVERPAID) boyish manner!
Anyway, half of michael's money comes from Ferrari, whose money comes from a) the companies car sales which comes from all over the world b) from Fiat whose (half of their) money comes from the car sales around the world. So Mr FORMER President, just stop being grouchy and let those MEN who work for it enjoy!
note: Perhaps Mr Former President is a DC/Ron fan??

[Tris]

Originally posted by R
"Tried and failed to win the WDC for Ferrari." I agree that Prost and Alesi failed, but I think it's unfair to say that Gilles Villeneuve failed. I think he would have won in 82 if he hadn't been killed, and I don't think that would have been his only title either. [/B]

I may be biased but Gilles did not fail to become WDC. He allowed Scheckter to win in 1979. Scheckter was hired as the team leader and Villeneuve helped him rather than racing for himself. He was told that his time would come. he would have beaten Jody in a fair fight, no question.

I could not believe what Schumacher did on the podium! I love his driving but out of the car some of the things he does strikes a dissonant chord with me. (His conduct on the podium at Imola in 1994 turned my stomach.) I know some true tifosi and they do not really like Schumacher at all. They are happy Ferrari have won but they would have rather it been with Alesi!

I think that there are a lot of confused Schumacher fans out there who claim to be Tifosi but they have not even been to Monza!


Tris

[neutral]

The italian press would have grilled Michael by now if they had found it that disrespectful. The lack of criticism from the media suggest that the only people who dislike his celebrations include that former president and grumpy anti-schmi fans. However, no matter how hard anyone tries, nothing can stop the biggest celebrations for the greatest driver and constructor in the history of F1.

[Blackjack]

My German friends would like to point out that Sch-Me is not and never will be a Bavarian.

[Bononi]

I think that kind of insult comes from the culture and the enviroment each one of us live. To conduct an anthem like a maestro could be insulting for germans,english or japanese. Since they seem to have a well disciplined view on this matters. But for the latins, such emotive gesture would only mean the love and joy for being part of something. That former president did not express the majority's opinion.
In past years I have seen disrespectful behaviour by some drivers on the podium. I remember one time when Piquet (wich I highly respect as a driver) did not took off his cap and keep talking to Patrese while the brazilian anthem was playing... THAT was an insult.

[Peter Mallett]

Liz is quite correct. One should not cry, wave arms about or generally celebrate the joy of winning whilst the anthems are being played. Especially cry and wring one's national flag in one's hands like a damp ladies hanky.

Actually I agree with this principle but I guess I'm getting old.

However, As Tim says the Italian National Anthem is one tune which encourages leaping about with joy, Mickey-the-Shoe was just doing what the team wanted. It was good TV and he has done it many times before.

Generally it was noticeable that the "arrogant kraut" seems to have been replaced by a confident sportsman. I hope he remains as such so that we can appreciate his first DESERVED WDC.

[Red]

...paid with his country's money, now that's the funniest joke I've heard lately.

With only a few exceptions (Monza this year for example), Schumacher "directs" the national anthem, however he directs the Ferrari chorus (Italian crew), singing in front of the podium. What's the big deal, actually I find it nice. He doesn't do this on German anthem, maybe there are not enough Germans working for Ferrari to make a reasonable chorus and I don't think is very interesting to direct a tape recording. By the way, the German anthem is not called "Deutschland Uber Alles", since 1945 I believe. It is called now Deutschlandlied.

[angst]

What's the problem? TGF was just joining in the fun below him, where I get the impression the Ferrari mechanics were already dancing joyously at their first WDC for 21 years. Just one more bitter and twisted politician putting his (unwanted) bitter, twisted view forward.
By the way Tris (and R) I agree about Villeneuve. '79 he allowed Scheckter to win, '82 he would have trounced the opposition.

[Liz]

Gilles should have been champion in 1979. I agree with that.

If TGF isn't Bavarian, then what is he? Just want to be sure I call him the right thing.

What number will Mika have on his car next year? Will he get the No. 3?

[TimD]

Originally posted by Liz


If TGF isn't Bavarian, then what is he? Just want to be sure I call him the right thing.

Well, he comes from Hurth, which if I remember rightly, makes him Westphalian. Or possibly a Rheinlander. Not sure. It certainly puts his roots right over on the western flank of Germany. Hurth (sorry, there should be an umlaut over the "u", but my keyboard doesn't do umlauts) is closer to Belgium than it is to Bavaria, I suspect.

Calling Michael a Bavarian is like telling someone from Las Vegas that they come from Florida - or someone from Shropshire that they live in Kent.

[Liz]

Georgraphy book for the Former President of Italy, please!

Jumped up little Westphalian Brat doesn't have the euphonious sound of "Bavarian Brat" though, so perhaps he just said that because it sounds good - like "Nattering Nabobs of Negativism."

But it was tacky, even if it had been correct, and perhaps TGF should send him some leiderhosen and forget him.

[downforce]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tris

Originally posted by R

I think that there are a lot of confused Schumacher fans out there who claim to be Tifosi but they have not even been to Monza!


Tris

U mean u have to got to Monza to be a tifosi???
...anyways Tris, Im a Schumacher fan and i dont care what car he drives!!

Actually, put him in an Arrows.

[downforce]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tris

Originally posted by R

I think that there are a lot of confused Schumacher fans out there who claim to be Tifosi but they have not even been to Monza!


Tris

U mean u have to got to Monza to be a tifosi???
...anyways Tris, Im a Schumacher fan and i dont care what car he drives!!

Actually, put him in an Arrows.

"And look at the defeated, they have nowhere to run..."
F**k Former Presidents!

[Robin Plummer]

As a British citizen living in England I am very unhappy about it all. After all 60 years ago Germany and Italy were members of the Axis who started world war 2. Never, ever forget that...