British GT

M Coupe · 26 May 2006, 21:15 (Ref:1619803)

After a good start to the season it's turned silly.

I see the Prosports have been effectively removed from the championship by moving them from GTC into GT2.

Why accept entries from 2 teams, then change the rules on them after only 2 rounds at the behest of some of the other teams. It's worrying that people can have the competition moved or removed by signing a petition, especially when not all the teams did so.

It does make you wonder who is actually running the championship as it looks like it is not the organising club who seem to have backed down under pressure from the big teams who spend lots of money, shame they didn't stick to their decision about allowing the cars to compete at the beginning of the season.

JAG · 26 May 2006, 21:56 (Ref:1619833)

I have no interest in watching a Porsche series, particularly when they are made up of unispiring Cup cars rather than GT2 machines.

dj choc ice · 26 May 2006, 22:32 (Ref:1619844)

i can remember wanting to go and see the british GT because there were saleen S7R's racing there, ferrari 360 GT's, ferrari F40 GTC's racing there and lister storms because that was the british GT for me, now i see it more of a cup series instead of a proper sportscar series, they need to bring back some of the GT1's whether they are the old one's or the new one's because i think that will draw in more fans

Graham Goodwin · 27 May 2006, 11:14 (Ref:1620096)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dj choc ice

they need to bring back some of the GT1's whether they are the old one's or the new one's because i think that will draw in more fans

They tried - nobody had the budget

SALEEN S7R · 27 May 2006, 11:48 (Ref:1620126)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

They tried - nobody had the budget

Indeed, and unless the series organisers gave the older GT1 cars bigger air restrictors or wider tyres there is a very good chance that todays GT2 cars would actually be faster. Slightly off topic but it is interesting to note that this years FIA GT GT2 cars have already lapped faster than the pole postition for the 2001 Brno race and we havent had qualifying yet....

strider · 27 May 2006, 11:58 (Ref:1620130)

It's all a bit complicated for me, but let's be clear on one thing: the BRSCC may be the organising club, but it's SRO that calls the shots as to who is allowed to join the party and on what terms. Personally I'm cheering for the Panoz!

TheNewBob · 27 May 2006, 13:15 (Ref:1620185)

The championship seems like a shadow of it's former self - Whilst it's nice to see Marcos, Morgan, Panoz and ProSport getting their cars out there, the rest of the field, with the possible exception of GT3, is pretty dull. The Porsche cup cars are particularly uninspiring, yet sadly they make up most of the grid.

I long for the days when GT1 cars were in this championship, but nevermind them for now - we don't even have many GT2's out there. Is it really impossible to give Porsche 996 RSR's, T400R's, Ultimas, 350Z's and 'Vette C5's a little performance boost to make them more competitive? Ecosse and LNT might complain that they invested in the latest machinery so it's unfair, but if they do something to put the cars on par with the Moslers it could make things interesting - look how competitive the Rollcentre Mosler was at the beginning at Donington...?

**Aysedasi** · 27 May 2006, 13:45 (Ref:1620231)

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Coupe

After a good start to the season it's turned silly.

I see the Prosports have been effectively removed from the championship by moving them from GTC into GT2.

Why accept entries from 2 teams, then change the rules on them after only 2 rounds at the behest of some of the other teams. .

The question to my mind is what these cars are doing racing as GTs anyway? I don't understand why their entries were accepted in the first place......

JAG · 27 May 2006, 21:46 (Ref:1620327)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

The championship seems like a shadow of it's former self - Whilst it's nice to see Marcos, Morgan, Panoz and ProSport getting their cars out there, the rest of the field, with the possible exception of GT3, is pretty dull. The Porsche cup cars are particularly uninspiring, yet sadly they make up most of the grid.

I long for the days when GT1 cars were in this championship, but nevermind them for now - we don't even have many GT2's out there. Is it really impossible to give Porsche 996 RSR's, T400R's, Ultimas, 350Z's and 'Vette C5's a little performance boost to make them more competitive? Ecosse and LNT might complain that they invested in the latest machinery so it's unfair, but if they do something to put the cars on par with the Moslers it could make things interesting - look how competitive the Rollcentre Mosler was at the beginning at Donington...?

Just found some old photos from the glory years.

Anyone remember the Lanzante F1 GTr, Chamberlain XJ220, G-Force 911 GT, various Storm GTL's, long tail F1 GTR's.......................at Oulton Park!!!!!

What a sight!

I'll scan them and post 'em up. Also have Brands Hatch BPR GT, the (BPR) debut of the 911 GT1.

Back on topic, after seeing FIA GT3 on TV, I wouldn't mind BGT introducing this as a single class. A few Vipers and C6's are just what the series needs.

M Coupe · 27 May 2006, 22:12 (Ref:1620355)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The question to my mind is what these cars are doing racing as GTs anyway? I don't understand why their entries were accepted in the first place......

I think in this situation that's now irrelevant. The entries were accepted, and as such the SRO deemed they were acceptable, therefore 2 teams have pulled together a budget to race this year, then the SRO pull the carpet from under their feet.
My concern with this whole situation is that just because some of the other teams signed a petition they got moved (although they wanted them thrown out completely). What does that mean for any future cars which may enter that may look like something other than a 911. Remember the Prosport has been eligable to race in GTC for years and is effectively the same as an Ultima GTR.

As a race car the Prosport is nowhere neer as advanced as most of the other GT machines out there so it isn't exactly a full blown racer against some roadgoing GT cars that some of the teams are trying to make out.

Erki · 28 May 2006, 09:31 (Ref:1620700)

Looks like majority of Vipers ever made are now running in French FFSA GT.

TheNewBob · 28 May 2006, 16:33 (Ref:1621116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Just found some old photos from the glory years.

Anyone remember the Lanzante F1 GTr, Chamberlain XJ220, G-Force 911 GT, various Storm GTL's, long tail F1 GTR's.......................at Oulton Park!!!!!

What a sight!

I'll scan them and post 'em up. Also have Brands Hatch BPR GT, the (BPR) debut of the 911 GT1.

Back on topic, after seeing FIA GT3 on TV, I wouldn't mind BGT introducing this as a single class. A few Vipers and C6's are just what the series needs.

Be great to see those photos!

I have the program for the Snetterton '98 race - there was an article in it about the Blue Coral G-Force 911 GT1 - was that the first time a 911 GT1 had run in BGT, or was it the first time it had raced at that circuit...? They were heralding it as something new anyway.

I think the GT3 class could well be BGT's saviour - the Astons were nice to see, if a little disappointingly quiet. But if teams dared to gamble a little bit and counjured up a budget for a few Viper's, Z06's, Ascaris, Lambo's and Mazza's then the series could again boast the variety it once used to have. Would add some nice sights and sounds to the grids - the Vipers, Ascaris and Mazza GT3's in particular were great to listen to at Silverstone.

Makes me wonder why Embassy racing didn't go the GT3 route with their Ascari instead of trying to stay in GT2...

Dauer 962 · 29 May 2006, 14:09 (Ref:1622050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheNewBob

I have the program for the Snetterton '98 race - there was an article in it about the Blue Coral G-Force 911 GT1 - was that the first time a 911 GT1 had run in BGT, or was it the first time it had raced at that circuit...? They were heralding it as something new anyway.

The maiden appearance of the Blue Coral G Force Strandell 993 GT1 was the second Brands Hatch round in the ´97 BGT season. It was the Ex JMB FIA GT car and G-Force took delivery of that car only few days earlier, so the car appeared in a strange white / red / blue Marlboro / Blue Coral paint scheme.

MaxMotus · 1 Feb 2007, 01:23 (Ref:1830731)

The problem with the Prosports in British Gt was that SRO clearly miss judged the performance of the Prosport 3000 and what its technically is....

1) How many have you seen on the road??

2) The lap times set by Ian Flux (top driver) in a Prosport could lap the GT2 field at Oulton Park inside 10laps!

With the second point in mind, not only what the hell was that car doing in GTC but more to the point wtf was it doing in British GT?!

The GTC teams were not only upset that the prosport was considered to have to higher performance values but also tyres were developed to suit the prosport while everyone else got a fixed compound....

renkadima · 1 Feb 2007, 19:07 (Ref:1831293)

Shh! You'll wake Simon!

Simon S · 3 Feb 2007, 18:01 (Ref:1832668)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxMotus

The problem with the Prosports in British Gt was that SRO clearly miss judged the performance of the Prosport 3000 and what its technically is....

1) How many have you seen on the road??

2) The lap times set by Ian Flux (top driver) in a Prosport could lap the GT2 field at Oulton Park inside 10laps!

With the second point in mind, not only what the hell was that car doing in GTC but more to the point wtf was it doing in British GT?!

The GTC teams were not only upset that the prosport was considered to have to higher performance values but also tyres were developed to suit the prosport while everyone else got a fixed compound....

LOL!

for starters, there are at lest 2 cars that I know off on the road (Ian has one of them), then consider that the Ultima is a ProSPort in all but name (if you ever bothered to look at them)

then, the car you are comparing times with was not even a prosport (it's Mick Christophers FIA SR3 car, Britsports entry lists have it wrongly enteed as a ProSport as he also has a prosport)

the ProSport he drives is also FAR from Std ProSport Spec, in that the chassis is non-orriginal, the engine is not only a bigger capacity, but significantly more powerfull, the whole car is lighter than std, etc etc. - in fact, it does not come close to meeting the spec reqyuired for GT Cup class.

If you look at the time sheets for the two cars entered (Ian's and mine) you will note that niether of them came close to taking class pole at the two rounds they ran in, and even when Ian ran his at silverstone in GT2 (with the engine restriction removed) it still would not have taken Cup class pole (it was over 1.5 sec's back)

I guess you are now going to tell me that we are all muppets and can't drive them for ****? well, ignoring me, Simon Pullen is not regared as a muppet driver (Ian's car at donington) and certainly Nigel James is not (he did after all win the ProSport championship two years running).

As for the comments about tyres! you must be joking, we had almost zero tyres to test with, and they were still well behind the perfomance level of the orriginal Dunlops that where developed for the ProSPort back in 1994 (and have not been changed since AFAIK)

MaxMotus · 3 Feb 2007, 19:10 (Ref:1832720)

Hi Simon,

Please understand, I'm not commenting on Simon Pullens or any other drivers ability for that matter.

What I'm commenting on is the Prosports performance. I'm fully aware of what a Prosport is and its speed. Please take a look at the links i have left below and see for yourself about the laptimes. And the Entry for the Prosport driven by Ian Flux was definitley a Prosport I know,

EERC Brands Hatch GP

http://www.msttiming.com/singlesessi...d=brandsgp.gif

Britsh GT Brands Hatch GP

http://www.msttiming.com/singlesessi...nd=round09.gif

In both events Dry conditions. The Prosport is no less than 6 seconds faster than the Ferrari on pole. Making it 9 seconds faster than the nearest GTC car?!

I've had the pleasure of racing against Ian in the Prosport 3000 so I'm familer with a Prosport 3000 performance. I have nothing against the owners of the cars, I think its unfortunate for them has happened but the issue was created by SRO in reality.

Please dont take offence by my comments...

Kind Regards

MaxMotus · 3 Feb 2007, 19:43 (Ref:1832752)

Sorry I missed a point out from the above, I except that the Prosport of Fluxy is modified although until you pointed it out i was not totally aware.

Are you saying that the Modifications made to the above car makes it 10 seconds faster than your car?!

Also wasn't the Ultima classed as a NGT car which now puts it into GT2?!

I'm more than happy to be proved wrong on this topic?

Simon S · 3 Feb 2007, 20:25 (Ref:1832786)

Mick Christopher is one of the orrigninal prosport owners, he has owned that car longer than anybody else has, in that time he has somewhat developed it.

Std prosport LM3000 engine is 320Bhp, his is over 400, and asside that, for GT cup class, we were running under 210 Bhp to meet the power the weight regs.

then consider that is chassis is CrMo, has a significantly different eagle plate, braced up engine mounts, and god knows what else, and yes, it's fast.

he also set the time you have pointed to on Dunlops, these are NOTHING like the Avon's we ran in GT (at Donnignton, the Avon's were some 1.5 sec's a lap slower compared with year old Dunlops).

Now, if you going to tell me you know what a ProSport is and an Ultima, you will also know the Ultima's have a great big V8 in them vs. the ProSports Ford Cosworth Cologne V6.

as for the comments on driviers, tell me what else you attribute the slowness to then? I fail to see any other explanation if you read what you have said...

Simon S · 4 Feb 2007, 11:35 (Ref:1833142)

Having just read http://www.stuartmoseley.com/news-bgtdonington06.html
I have to say I am just crying...

Not only is your race massively talked up (about par for the course) but you then have the audacity to claim ‘fastest lap’ etc is somewhat pushing the truth here don’t you think?

If you care to look at the MST timesheet for this event here http://www.msttiming.com/result.asp?...nd=round03.gif
You will note that in GTC class, Car 16 (Motorbase) posted a fastest lap of 1:24.267
Ahead of this time were:

Team Scandal 1:22.194
Trackspeed (5) 1:23.078
Data Protection Solutions 1:23.079
David Dove Racing 1:23.244

Sean Edwards · 4 Feb 2007, 17:42 (Ref:1833335)

Hi Simon,

I don't see anywhere Stuart commenting on drivers? You are the on who commented on them, saying what you thought he would say, but he never did...

So a Prosport race car can be modified to be nearly 10 seconds a lap faster than a standard one, really? Even if it is nearly 200 hp more than the GTC legal prosport, 10 seconds is a huge gap.

I don't see why you are getting personal with him now, asking why he said he got fastest lap ect...? This all seems very petty to me.

Randy · 4 Feb 2007, 18:09 (Ref:1833353)

Bickering asside I think you only have to look at our (Team-Scandal) lap times at the Britcar 24 to see a comparison of the Prosport in Brit GT spec vs a GTC Porsche.

http://www.msttiming.com/singlesessi...verstonegp.gif

Not only is Michael Christopher's Prosport FAR more powerful (almost double) than Simon's its also far lighter and has 14 years of development under its belt. Prosports are great in the corners but with 210bhp std Granada engine they are massively slow in a straight line, just look at how I got monstered at the start of the 24.

Simon S · 4 Feb 2007, 18:27 (Ref:1833369)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean Edwards

Hi Simon,

I don't see anywhere Stuart commenting on drivers? You are the on who commented on them, saying what you thought he would say, but he never did...

I really wish people would read posts before making comment.....

The question still stands, if he thinks the cars are capable of demolishing a GTC/GT2/NGT field, how come in 2004/2005/2006 it's never happened?

the only two possible answers are:

1) the cars are not capable of doing it (which he has yet to accept)
2) the drivers of said cars are all hopeless.

now, which one is it?

let's not forget that after being idle for almost a year, he suddenly felt the need to stir this up again.....

as a side thought, Thinking about it, I seem to remeber his name on the infamour 'letter' given to SRO, and if he signed it on the basis of what he has posted here, then it basically shows how ill-informed he (and the others) were at the time.

it's a sad state affairs when a bunch of ill-informed competitors can effectively force cars off the grid on the basis of bogus 'facts' etc.

Tim Dunlop · 4 Feb 2007, 19:49 (Ref:1833445)

Hi there,

Sorry to go slightly off topic but does anyone know the date and location of the British GT 2007 Launch and Media Day ??

Quite keen to attend assuming they will let the general public in.

Regards

Tim

thereal_tdb · 5 Feb 2007, 18:40 (Ref:1834091)

I think if you race a porsche in any GT series you should be penalised for lack of imagination!

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