Loads Of Trouble, Usually Serious - LOTUS

[TimD]

A genuine enquiry this, as I have frankly lost track.

What's the current state of play with Lotus? Is the factory and road car operation still Malaysian owned? Do any multinationals have a stake in them?

A lot of GM cars (Piazza, Corvette, Calibra etc) touted Lotus involvement in their design a few years back.

Who has the rights to Team Lotus? Is it still David Hunt?

Do you see where I am coming from? If, as suggested in another thread, GM are making noises about F1 involvement, would this not be the time to have another nice, big corporation bankrolling the return of one of the great names of Formula 1?

[MichaelC]

As far as I can remember, you're right on both points. The road cars are still Malaysian owned - Proton it is that paid up, I think - and David Hunt still owns the rights to team lotus.
I'm not sure if Lotus Sport is related to one or both of the above though.

There were close-season noises about David Hunt reviving Team Lotus and bringing them back to F1. A GM-backed Lotus team could be quite interesting, and would leave just VW-Audi out as non-participants. Would they bring in the Lamborghini brand (again)??

[Regs]

I think if VW/Audi were to return to F1, they should do so as Audi. Enhancing Lamborghini's image does nothing. How many Lambo's are sold every year compared to Audi's. And the competition between Audi and BMW and Mercedes is much more stiff than that between Ferrari and Lamborghini. If I were on the committee deciding this at VW/Audi, that's what I'd recommend.

[Tristan]

True, Regs, but I don't see a team FIAT anywhere, do you? OR Maserati. OR Alfa (probably FIAT's closest comparable brand to Audi). I see a Ferrari, the brand that they probably sell the fewest of. Why? Because image is everything, regardless of what's sold in numbers. I think it'll be good to resurrect Lambo, OR Lotus.

BTW: GM own a large stake in Proton, who in turn own Lotus cars. Lotus do stuff like tune the suspension on high-spec Opels and Vauxhalls for GM and also do the same thing for Proton. I live right near the Lotus factory in Norfolk and ALL kninds of weird prototypes come out of there. eg. 4x4 Kia Sportage with a HUGE air duct attached to the bonnet and a mysterious roadster which turned out to be the Elise. The latest is a GT-type Elise thingey that I saw near the track.

A return to F1 is possible I guess: I'll keep my eyes peeled for any unusuall occurances that might point to a return (ie. a fleet of black Cadilacs in the factory drive!)

[Regs]

Okay, but there is a fundamental difference between Lamborghini and Ferrari. Ferrari's mystique is built on two things, as I see it. One, Ferrari's racing pedigree, which was built before thier first "civilian" sports cars and exotics. Two, on the enigmatic persona of Enzo Ferrari. As far as I know, Lamborghini has very little in the way of a racing history. They have dabbled, but I never heard of "...and the race was dominated by the overwhelming force of the Lamborghini's taking first and second here at..." in racing documentries or history books. Thier legend is built on the progerssive styling and engineering of the Miura of the late 60's, and the outrageousness of the Countach in the late 70's and early 80's. It would make more sense for Maserati to return to F1 as they have a history with it. Fangio forged that reputation with a Maserati 250 6 cyl in the 50's. And I think that period when Maserati was the(italics) Italian race car has not been forgotten. Audi, likewise, also has a history with the Grands Prix. As you well know, in the pre war years Audi was known as Auto Union and they were a force to be reconed with. They dominated the thirties and even the mighty Mercedes cars spent a lot of time choking in the dust of the Auto Unions. They were also highly innovative in thier layout at the time. But this is all semantics, and are talking solely on the historical appeal of a team. Lamborgini certinly could step up and enter F1 as much as KIA. There is one thing though that does keep them out, and it has nothing to do with history or legends, and that is the funds to do so. Chrysler no longer owns Lamborghini and I'm not sure that the new owners have that much disposable income. But who knows?

[Tristan]

True

[Devlin]

Regs, the "new" owners of Lamborghini are a tiny little company from Wolfsburg, Germany, called Volkswagen Do they have the "income disposable"? Oh, yes, I certainly believe so! I'm in agreement with you, though, as far as Audi are concerned. I really thought it was written in stone that they are the pick of (VW's) pack, especially in light of their Le Mans win.

[bondibill]

Recent history (Jaguar, Toyota) would have us believe that Audi are being groomed for F1 via Le Mans....

[Super Tourer]

I don't think we will see the big car makers using F1 to promote, low volume 'Supercar' brands like Lotus or Lambo - what's the point?

Because of the way these cars are made they can usually sell as many cars as they can make. Ferrari is a different case because they have been continually racing in F1 from the start and have become part of the fixtures and fittings.

But it is sales of Fiat cars that pay for Ferrari to race not sales of Ferrari road cars.

If a car maker is to enter F1 it is to make a return on their investment, in increased profile, image and subsequent sales.

Audi will come into F1 to show BMW owners they are as good as BMW - so why not buy an Audi, in the same way that Jag came in to steal some of Mercs and BMW's thunder (whoops!)

I don't think we will see car makers put all that investment into promoting a niche brand that 95% of car drivers can't afford to buy.

I agree that GM would pick a luxury brand to promote if they came into F1, hence the reason for the Cadillac sports car at Le Mans. But overall because of the cost of doing F1, its got to be a high volume brand to recoup the costs.

[Regs]

And that is why Tyrrell is no longer in F1. Its not just about racing anymore. It's become something of both a marketing tool and an R&D lab for manufacturers. I did not know that VW wound up with Lamborghini. Last I heard a Swiss company had bought it, but my information is wrong. Thus, yes, VW/Audi would have the pockets for an F1 program for Lambo if they so desired. Lotus, on the other hand is an interesting propsition. But Lotus is another case of a car and its maker fused into the same legend. Once Colin Chapman passed away Lotus seemed to lose its compass. Chapman was an innovator and genius who was never afraid to be the first one to try something new. Lotus, I think should have been the one to take the mantle of the "Anglo Ferrari". All the right ingredients were there, the personalities of Chapman, Clark, Hill, the performance, the victories, the legacy. Lotus ruled F1 in the late sixties and remained a force throughout the seventies. What Lotus needed, and never got, was a strong partner/benefactor, much like FIAT has been to Ferrari. There really is something to work with there. I understand though that the sports car/exotics manufacturer Lotus and Lotus racing have seperate owners. I could be wrong but I thought I read something to that effect somewhere once. But with the right partner, perhaps Lotus could be resurrected, maybe with GM backing. And that would be nice. But practical realities would probably have it that GM would most likely back a Cadilliac effort, as far more Cadillacs are sold than Lotuses, and to GM, enhancing Caddy's image is more important. And no one is in F1 just for the racing anymore.